[HPforGrownups] Re: SHIP Ron/ Hermione /Golpalott's Third Law

[silmariel]

No: HPFGUIDX 151458

Silmariel wrote:
> > Have to agree. I think Hermione is supossed to be gifted, but she has to
> > study too much and put too much work into her studies to achieve her
> > academic levels. I can't see her as truly gifted. It should be easier for
> > her, after all, she is not in a gifted children school competing with her
> > peers, to be over the top, she shouldn't have to work so hard. Just IMO.
>

Shaun:
> Well, your opinion is as valid as anyone elses, but let me explain
> as someone whose done a lot of work with a lot of gifted kids over
> the years, why I would say Hermione is definitely gifted and more
> than gifted.

Silmariel
I knew your opinion, and I don't doubt you are right and JKR intended Hermione 
to be 'the brightest witch of her generation', or something to the effect. 

What I'm saying is that, not being an expert in the field, it's perfectly 
acceptable not perceiving her as gifted. As I have three gifted cousins in 
the family, I'm used to them. The one that dedicates to collect Phds 
(chemistry, physics and mathematics the last time I asked) is quite lazy 
(procastinator?) and would never work so hard.

Shaun:
> First of all, just because Hermione studies very hard doesn't mean
> that she actually needs to study that hard. Hermione seems to be
> what we would generally describe as a gifted perfectionist - and
> that's an area I know a lot about. It's the area of giftedness, I'm
> most cited on.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/oolxd

Silmariel:
Yep, I'm aware, as a long time lurker that read your posts, in some groups.

Shaun:
> I should that some gifted children actually do need to study quite a
> bit. Giftedness has different forms and some of those actually
> require a lot of study to express themselves - the giftedness in
> those cases is more in the ability to synthesise and express ideas,
> rather than in the area of having such a good memory that study can
> be minimised. Personally I don't think Hermione has that type of
> giftedness - I think she probably does have a good memory - but
> there are gifted kids like that.

Silmariel:
Ok, if you say so, you are the expert. Maybe I'm confused because I'm used to 
the combination of factors. My family mixes creativity with reasoning and a 
lot of memory. If it puts it in context, I'm a black sheep in the family and 
I was able to prepare and pass 300 sheets of mathematical theory exam 
regarding optimization (3rd year at College,  computer field) in 3 days, and 
I had no idea of the asignature, I had not gone to classes.

Shaun:
> But I say, I think Hermione is a gifted perfectionist and that is
> the reason for her excessive amount of studying. I really don't
> think Hermione needs to do as much study as she does to perform
> well, but being a perfectionist, she does a lot more than she needs
> to (one of the two ways perfectionism most often expresses itself -
> the other is in not studying at all, because if you don't try, you
> have an excuse for failure).

Silmariel:
Ok, I get it. Still, I suposse I would have like her seeing fully dedicated to 
knowledge but not only to studies. A bit of hobbies related to but not 
included in the OWL race, like -muggle example warning- astronomy. I 
understant that Hermione is driven by knowledge, but, as Joe says, she can be 
interpreted as a new Percy - achiever of marks. I think Percy is gifted, but 
not 'the brightest wizard'.

<snips examples of academic perfectionism, already said agreed>

Shaun:
> No, Hermione is not in a special school for gifted children.
>
> But she's doing eleven OWLs when it seems it is normal to do nine.

Silmariel:
So? That's not remarkable. Oh, sorry, it is, just not amazing, in my book. See 
the Weasleys records.

Shaun:
> She also does *exceed* the highest level expected of students at
> least twice that we know of.
>
> In first year, she gets 112 percent in her Charms exam.
>
> In third year, she gets 320 percent in her Muggle Studies exam.

Silmariel:
Pity that she has to devote all that time, and she can't do it with two weeks  
work -at most- per subject. And do something as intellectual but not so 
workaholic the rest of the time.

Shaun:
> This indicates that Hermione does study more than she needs to. This
> girl doesn't stop studying when she knows she's passed. She doesn't
> even stop studying when she's met the standard her school regards as
> perfect - worth 100%. She keeps studying even after she's done more
> than enough. So viewing the fact she studies very hard as an
> indication that she isn't as smart as she appears, seems to me to be
> rather unjustified. She studies because she is driven to. The
> standard the school requires doesn't interest her - she's aiming to
> do as well as she possibly can whether that is at the standard of
> the school, or even higher.

Silmariel:
Written that way, it even may seem that Hermione is driven by studies instead 
of knowledge. Unjustified, but understatable? Well, how do I know if she is 
driven to for the knowledge of for the marks? My experience of what is if 
gifted differs a lot.

Shaun:
> Hermione works to her potential. Not to the potential expected of a
> student of her age.

But a quite academic potential, sadly.

Silmariel