[HPforGrownups] Re: Voldemort as a Ghost? (Was: Voldemort's ideology?)

[Peggy Wilkins]

No: HPFGUIDX 151558

On 4/27/06, Leeloo Volusia <mi_nai_leeloo at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Peggy W wrote:
> What happened to the failed Avada Kedavra, did it simply dissipate?  I
> don't think so.  I think that since the Avada Kedavra was unable to
> complete its job, it (or rather, the energy of it) has been hanging
> around, held between Harry and Voldemort and making an active
> connection between them....[snip]

>  Leeloo writes:
>  I think the AK curse did do its job in the terms of destroying
> Riddle's original body.  It is referred to as the "killing curse" and it
> did, in fact, kill Voldemort's body.

Peggy W. again:
I can't consider that to be "killing" though.  The AK definitely did
something: it ripped Voldemort from his body, and because of the way
Voldemort had altered his being, it also seems to have made his body
disappear.  But to me the ultimate (important) point is that the curse
failed, because it had to fail: Voldemort cannot be killed while he
has his Horcruxes, his is not mortal.  Because of this, the curse
never completed, even if some effects happened because of it.

Perhaps this is getting into a technicality, but what I am saying is
that a curse that doesn't complete (and this is a unique circumstance,
as we have been told repeatedly) somehow lingers: it has effects that
continue.  I am explaining the effects that we do see as existing
because the curse is lingering, clogged up, held up, etc.  It is a way
of thinking about it, and I find it useful for that reason, because it
possibly accounts for the lingering connection between Harry and
Voldemort.

Also I consider the idea of the original curse finally doing its job
nearly two decades later quite dramatic, especially beacause it would
mean that Voldemort ultimately caused his own death.  And it keeps
Harry from having to murder him!

Leeloo:
>   We know that Voldemort transferred some of his powers to Harry
> when he was given that scar.  I.e. Harry can speak and understand
> parseltongue.  Also, I believe that Voldemort had intended on making
> his final horcrux with Harry's murder, but Harry didn't die.  My
> question is this:  What happened to the item Voldemort intended to
> use as the horcrux to contain that final piece of soul?  AND, what
> happened to that shred of soul when no one was there to place in the
> intended horcrux?

Peggy W:
Those are of course interesting questions; they may or may not
coincide into the same thing.  You are proposing Harry's scar may be
the Horcrux, if I am understanding correctly.  I wouldn't rule out
that possibility.  I have mentioned another possibility before that
would be an alternative: the soul fragment remained behind when
Voldemort fled, and someone found it and did something with it: this
could be a Horcrux that Voldemort doesn't know about, and could be
used against him strategically.  This unknown Horcrux could be Harry's
scar by accident; or by the action of whoever found the soul bit.  I
have also proposed that Snape is the unknown Horcrux, and that is why
Dumbledore trusts him: he is hiding this secret and planning to use it
against Voldemort.  Of course no one can know about it, and so
Dumbledore can't reval the basis of his trust.

Leeloo:
>   Additionally, the part of the prophecy that Peggy quotes here
> (either must die at the hand of the other) suggests to me that only
> Harry can kill Voldemort, and only Voldemort can kill Harry.  I
> have theorized before (again on another group) that this suggests
> that if ANYONE other than Voldemort kills Harry, then Voldemort
> may indeed die as a result and vice versa.

I am not sure I understand this conclusion...

Leeloo:
>   I cite specific examples, such as the graveyard scene in GoF,
>  the Dark Lord insists on killing Harry himself and not allowing anyone
>  else to do it.  I don't think this is just pride talking here.  Also, in OotP,
>  when Lucius stops (I believe) Bellatrix from cursing Harry in the MoM.
>  I don't think it was just the prophecy Lucius was worried about.

Peggy W:
But I don't think Voldemort or the Death Eaters were aware of that
part of the prophecy.  I thought that they only part they knew was
that Voldemort's nemesis was born at the end of July, and who were the
possible parents from the description (thrice defied); but nothing
after that part is known, which is why they were after the prophecy.

Leeloo:
>   Conversely, Dumbledore has always insisted that this mission
> is Harry's and Harry's alone.  Again, in OotP when they Order
> was battling Voldemort and his minions in the MoM, why didn't
> Dumbledore kill Voldemort then?

Peggy W:
I believe the answer to this is that Dumbledore knew he couldn't kill
Voldemort, there would be no point in trying; it would only cause a
longer delay in ending the whole affair if he were ripped from his
body again.  Dumbledore believed Voldemort had one or more Horcruxes
then (he suspected it after the diary incident, as he explained to
Harry), even if he didn't know how many (since he didn't yet have
Slughorn's information obtained later by Harry in HBP).

Leeloo:
>   And I think the most significant thing regarding this theory is
> the blood that was transferred to Voldemort from Harry when he
> was resurrected.  This links them not only by death, but now by
> blood. This makes their bond even stronger.  I'm sure this will
> prove to be a weakness Voldemort did not anticipate.

Peggy W:
I am sure there is something to the blood shared between them, but I
haven't been able to figure out any ideas about what it could be.

--
Peggy Wilkins
enlil65 at gmail.com