SHIP Ron/Hermione: The Bickering Couple

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 151609

> >>Betsy Hp:
> And actually, I think I've figured out why this particular        
> bickering couple just doesn't work for me: They have so very      
> little in common.  Which actually goes against, I think, the      
> bickering couple template. 
> I mean, look at Benedick and Beatrice in "Much Ado About          
> Nothing". They're both very witty, and incredibly independent.     
> They banter with each other *because* there's a connection.  Even 
> if they don't see it at first.
   
> >>Joe : 
> I have to strongly disagree here. Both of them being witty and    
> very independent seems like a very weak foundation and sort of    
> shallow as well.

Betsy Hp:
Oh, I was just sketching a very, very, simplified outline of those 
two, because I didn't want to drag the list down with a bunch of 
chatter on non-Harry Potter characters.  Within the play it's easy 
for the reader (or watcher) to see that Beatrice and Benedick are 
very much alike at heart.

> >>Joe:
> We know both Ron and Hermione are smart (she more than him but not 
> by leaps and bounds), brave, loyal with a strong sense of what is 
> right and wrong. Myabe it's me but that sounds like a far better   
> foundation than Benedick and Beatrice had. I'm not saying they    
> should be together. What I am saying is that they have as good a  
> foundation as any. I think the real problem is from giving far too 
> much importance to their surface traits (reads a lot, loves sports 
> etc) and not enough to those traits that make people who they are. 

Betsy Hp:
Yeah, but note I don't talk about sports or books.  I *do* see a 
difference in how they view loyalty or bravery.  And I certainly see 
a difference between Hermione's and Ron's views of right and wrong.

If their differences were *just* surface-y, he's a pureblood, she's 
a muggleborn, etc., that wouldn't bother me.  But what I don't see 
is an "at heart" similarity.  In fact, I see the exact opposite.  
The way JKR has shown us the characters of Ron and Hermione leads me 
to believe that they are two people who come at the world from 
almost opposite directions.  I believe that's why we've got such a 
polarization going on in fandom over which character is the weak-
link in the relationship.  And, for me, it's why the 
usual "bickering couple" romantic trope (usually my favorite kind of 
trope <g>) is not working for me on this go around.
  
> >>Joe: 
> As much as I hate star wars analogies I have to say I think Ron    
> and Hermione are a great deal like Han and Leia. IMHO Han and Leia 
> only work because they aren't a like. They compliment each others 
> weaknesses.

Betsy Hp:
I'll run with this one. <g>  Han and Leia *think* they've got 
nothing in common.  But the audience knows differently.  The moment 
Leia rips the gun out of Luke's hands and starts taking over her own 
rescue, the audience is clued into the fact that she and Han both 
handle problems in the same, head on, take no prisoners, fashion.  
It's what makes the moment on Endor, when she silently shows him her 
gun and he instantly knows her plan, play out so seamlessly.  And 
it's what makes Leia's "I like nice men" protest a very empty one 
indeed.  Yes, she's a princess and he's a smuggler, but at heart, 
they're the same.

Ron and Hermione do not have that vibe.  At least, not that I've 
seen.  I'd say that they can possibly compliment each other's 
weaknesses, but only if they recognize that they even have 
weaknesses (something Hermione was having a very hard time with in 
HBP, and possibly even OotP).  And I do think that they each bring 
some very necessary things to the table in their support of Harry.  
But it doesn't work for the romantic bit.  Not for me.  Instead of 
rooting for them to get past their problems and get together, I keep 
hoping they'll catch a clue and get over each other and settle down 
into a nice sane relationship with someone who actually gets them.  
And that's not how I'm supposed to be feeling.
   
> >>Joe:
> No their differences aren't falsehoods but they are mostly         
> superficial.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
That's something I strongly disagree with.  Ron and Hermione have 
some major fundamental differences going on.  For example, the house 
elves: Hermione has a goal she works very hard towards achieving, 
and Ron comes along behind her and sabatoges her efforts.  That's 
huge.  It means that Ron totally disagrees with what Hermione is 
doing, but he knows he can't talk to her about it.  That ain't a 
good start to a relationship, IMO.  And it's not the way the 
bickering couple generally works.

> >>Joe: 
> <snip>
> For me the most telling thing would be to see how the two of them 
> relate when Harry isn't around. 

> >>Pippin:
> <snip>
> Harry doesn't think much about how they relate when he's not      
> around, but JKR sent them off to Hogsmeade together in PoA and    
> they came back glowing.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Ron and Hermione do seem to enjoy hanging around each other.  I 
think there are also a couple of times that Hermione arrives at the 
Burrow before Harry.  So yeah, I get that JKR is setting them up as 
a couple.  But I honestly have a hard time seeing how or why they 
enjoy hanging around each other.

> >>Pippin:
> What's similar about their style is their intensity. That can be
> awfully hard to put up with unless you find somebody who          
> understands it because they're the same way. Ron doesn't put his   
> intensity into his studies the way Hermione does, but he's not    
> what I'd call laid back, certainly not where Quidditch or Harry is 
> concerned.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Mmm, I disagree with that.  Hermione is definitely intense.  She is 
from the moment she shows up on the train instensely searching for 
Trevor.  Ron is much more passive, I'd even say laid back.  Yes, 
he's very loyal to Harry, and yes, he did do those secret quidditch 
practices.  But I still wouldn't call him intense.  I think that's 
part of the reason Hermione dismisses him so easily, because Ron 
doesn't make a big production over what he does.

> >>Magpie:
> <snip>
> When Hermione sees something important she says it or takes an    
> aggressive action. Ron's more likely to do something more subtle or
> go quiet. (I find his reaction to Arthur's attack more interesting 
> than any of the other Weasleys' wanting to fight.)
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Exactly.  Both Ron and Hermione were bothered by Winky's treatment 
at the beginning of GoF, but Hermione sprang into immediate (and 
poorly thought-out) action.  Ron, without spending a day in the 
library, recognized that the problem was more complex than Hermione 
made it out to be.  And when Hermione took her action too far 
(knitting and hiding the hats in OotP) Ron quietly sabatoged her 
efforts.  

Ron and Hermione have radically different ways of approaching 
things.  That is not necessarily a bad thing.  In fact, it's a boon 
to Harry to have such differing forms of support.  But it does 
provide a massive problem when they're suddenly shoved into a 
romantic mold.  Especially since JKR decided to take them the 
bickering route. 

I think the romance angle would have worked better if Ron and 
Hermione worked more smoothly together and fought less often.  Than 
their very real differences would come across as a benefit.  
Instead, their very real differences cause them to misunderstand and 
misjudge each other.  And instead of rooting for them to get 
together, the audience picks a side and breaks into factions and 
feels certain that one of the two is highly undeserving.  Which is 
not, I think, what JKR was going for.

Betsy Hp