[HPforGrownups] Re: House Elf Loyalty

[silmariel]

No: HPFGUIDX 151634


Kemper:
> Winky's interpretation may mean no longer serving for the family,
> though abusive, who she grew up with.  The HEs we've seen seem almost
> pre-pubescent: from the way they talk, to hero worship (who of us
> can't see Doby with a picture of Harry on his bedroom wall or Kreacher
> with TeenBeat!Bellatrix taped to his school locker), to the school
> yard roe of those two, and to the kitchen HEs eager to please.

Silmariel:
I've always seem them as children labor (one hundred million the last time I 
looked an ONU report), though I know it's not common to see them that way, 
their invisibility, unseen quality, makes the trick for me.

Kemper:
>  If you
> are familiar with social services, it won't be a surprise how many
> abused youth yearn for a connection with their abusive parent(s).
> Winky's story reminds me of this: from Crouch (dad) abusing then
> abandoning her, to her butterbeer (drug/alcohol) abuse.  Winky sees
> freedom as a loss of a perceived, yet unrequited relationship and not
> a gain of independence.

> The kitchen HEs, and I agree with Magpie, don't want to be free
> because they fear the freedom Winky is experiencing.

Silmariel:
But not wanting to be free is what would be expected from long term 
institutionalized slavery. They have been breed to know that is their place 
in the world, they have been deprived of education, ideas or any kind of 
resources that would make them independent, they have been deprived of any 
other kind of laboral opportunities, they have been trained to be happy being 
unseen and cleaning houses, and to hurt themselves for daring critic their 
masters. It is only natural for them to have fear. Codependence? 
Brainwashing?

> Alla:
> my main thing is that I don't remember any proof in canon
> that House Elfs willingly entered their service to humans. That is
> why I am hesitant to agree that they really like such service.
>
> Kemper now:
> Hi Alla.  You're right there is no canon.  BUT… there is canon that a
> wandless HE can kick a wanded wizard's ass.  So… why would an HE enter
> into a contract of any kind with a magical human?  The only reason I
> can think is that their life purpose/mission is to serve, and some
> magical human took advantage while no other magical human questioned
> the ethics of it, making it ok for other magical humans to do the
> same.  And wah-la… time passes and there's a culture of indentured
> servitude.

Silmariel:
But 'nature + unethical wizard' would make for lack of respect and 
mistreatment or abuse, not for slavery, or they could be serving any of the 
other species with 'nature + unethical member of random species'. You have 
slavery when there is nothing in nature that justifies it, and that's why it 
is a strong issue we all feel so blablabla about, as stated in the interview. 
It wouldn't be 'really slavery, isn't it?', if nature agreed with serving. 
Also, we don't know what their nature is, we only know what the status quo 
tells about it. I believe Dumbledore when he said it was wizards who make 
them the way they are (or something to the effect).

Having a strong magic won't give you any line of defense for Imperio and the 
like. When you throw a roleplaying game and give magic to all players but 
only a clan/group of them have the ability to mentally impose on others 
(easily, as with Imperio), it is sistematic that they win, by 
enslave/dominate everyone else.

We don't have proof that what wizards say about elves is correct, but I'd take 
anything they can say with a grain of salt, because they are slave masters 
telling why their slaves are ok as slaves as it is in their nature, and I'd 
also take with a grain of salt opinions of those slaves repeating their 
master's schemes.

Also, wizards are suppossed to paint a picture that puts them in a good light, 
one that means that the system is Good as it is, or we'd have more muggleborn 
reactions, not only Hermione. As I suppose it would be hard for them to 
accept they have become part of the slavery chain (not owners, but they are 
served by them, at Hws), they accept that elves are bound 'by nature', and 
don't question further.

Silmariel