Scene with likeable James WAS: Re: Eileen Pince

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 156279

> > Alla:
> > 
> > What is your definition of **their pack** though?

Irene: 
> The Marauders, obviously. Plus maybe the Gryffindor, to a lesser 
degree. 
> Maybe James confined his bullying to outside of his own house. 
That's at 
> school. A "grown-up" Sirius cares for Harry and to a lesser 
degree, 
> Harry's friends.

Alla:

I thought we were talking about grown-up James. Here is my question 
then. Could you name **one** person excluding Snape who has one bad 
word to say about grown up James? I maintain that James likeable 
only to his pack is an unsupported assertion. IMO of course, since I 
don't remember anybody who disliked him, when he was out of school.


Alla:
> > If that means 
> > everybody but Snape, then sure I agree with you. :) ( and in 
Sirius 
> > case Kreacher and his dear old mom).

Irene: 
> Oh, let's continue the list, why not? And Mrs. Weasley, and Ron 
(before 
> he becomes a pack member), and anyone who stood between him and 
Peter, 
> and even Harry himself, the moment he stopped playing by what 
Sirius 
> considered the rules of the pack.

Alla:

Erm... I am confused. Sirius disliked Molly and Ron or Molly and Ron 
disliked him? What canon support do you have for that, if you don't 
mind?

Ron not liking Sirius when he did not yet know that Sirius was not a 
murderer? Um, yes, none of the Trio did when they were unaware of 
that fact or do you mean something completely different and I am 
totally confused?

Molly disliked Sirius or Sirius disliked her? Or was it more like 
two fellow Order members fighting over the wellfare of the boy they 
both loved?

Do you have any canon support for Molly disliking Sirius except her 
remark in OOP, which IMO had nothing to do with Sirius and 
everything with Molly's fears over Harry?

And Sirius not liking Harry, not loving him? Are you arguing that 
**one** hurtful remark takes precedent over Sirius rushing to help 
Harry when he needed it in GoF, when Sirius rushed to save Harry in 
OOP?

What do you mean when you wrote Harry ""stopped playing by the rules 
of the pack"? Who invented those rules?

I am sorry, I cannot buy your examples, I don't find them convincing 
at all. JMHO.


People who love each other hurt each other too sometimes, I find the 
examples of their mutual love and respect to be more convincing than 
the other thinfs.

I still maintain that the **only** people Sirius was ever mean to 
was Snape, Kreacher and his mom. I am sorry, but I cannot begrudge 
Sirius for being mean to the last two people. As to Snape, since JKR 
said that their hatred was entirely mutual and we will find out more 
about that, I guess we shall see in the book 7 whether there was 
more to their animosity.

 
Alla: 
> > Seems to me like James and Sirius' pack included a lot of 
people. 
> > Seriously, do people who are likeable to everybody even exist?

Irene: 
> I didn't I measure them against the "likeable to everybody" 
standard, 
> it's an impossible one, obviously. But against "would I like to be 
> anywhere near them at school"? They fail miserably. They are 
exactly the 
> sort of people to make a life of a quiet, introverted child into a 
hell.

Alla:

You said that they were only likeable to their pack. That means to 
me that only limited number of people would like them. I am drawing 
a blank as to who else did not like them, but Snape. IMO of course.

Not with whom Sirius had arguments, but who had a permanent not even 
**hatred**, that's Snape prerogative, but dislike.

 
Irene:
> Yes, that's right. The limited number of people, not including 
those 
> James apparently hexed at will. They couldn't have all been 
Snape. :-)

Alla:

Names, please? :)  Of the people who did not like **grown up** James?

JMO,

Alla