Scene with likable James WAS: Re: Eileen Pince

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 156308

> Brothergib - OK, you got me. That is the problem of emailing at 
work 
> with no 'canon' to rely on.

Magpie:
No problem--I do that sort of thing all the time!

Brothergib:
I am not stating in any way that Harry's instinctive 
> reaction is wrong. I am trying to make the point that we seem to 
> think badly of James because of how he treats Snape, but we do not 
> think badly of Moody for how he treats Draco. I would even suggest 
> that we still don't think that badly of Mad Eye Crouch in this 
> particular scene even now we know exactly what he is! We are 
getting 
> into theological waters here - Eye for an Eye etc.
> We know how Draco has treated Harry prior to this scene.
> We do not know how Snape treated James prior to the pensieve scene.
> If we had seen Snape treating James badly prior to this scene - 
would 
> we still feel sympathy for Snape?

Magpie:
Oh yes--sorry, I didn't make that clear.  I'm agreeing with you.  I 
don't think we would feel the same sympathy had we seen Snape 
treating James badly prior to this scene. In fact, I think Snape 
probably *did* treat James badly prior to this scene, and that if we 
were reading the story of the Marauder years Snape would play a very 
similar role to Draco in the story--maybe a worse role since in 
Harry's time Snape himself draws a lot of animosity that might 
otherwise have been more focused on Draco.  I don't actually take 
James' "because he exists" as being just James picking on him for no 
reason--I think in James' head it is connected to Snape's 
association in his mind with the Dark Arts etc.

But I think that's the interesting thing about it, because within 
this scene James isn't getting Snape back or doing anything noble, 
he's just having fun.  During HBP Harry himself starts hexing people 
in the hallways--he gets Filch (a Squib), Goyle (with whom he has a 
history but doesn't seem to have been going after him at the time), 
is looking for an opportunity to try out Sectumsempra on McLaggen.  
Harry has negative experiences with all these people. It seems like 
the "eye for an eye" mentality is being intentionally challenged or 
analyzed.

Alla:

Hmmm, I am pretty sure that Harry's instinctive reaction to the scene
is right,**but** I also think that we will find out more about the
reasons for their animosity.

Magpie:
Me too.  And it's already muddy, as you pointed out.  The HBP's book 
obviously didn't belong to last generation's Neville Longbottom. 

Remember too that the Pensieve memory was something Snape was trying 
to hide, I assume because it was humiliating to him.  So when we 
think how we haven't heard about Snape mistreating the Marauders--
they're not going to tell Harry that anyway any more than Snape 
intentionally told Harry about the Pensieve. Sure they'll say Snape 
was a little spy trying to get them in trouble and deserved what he 
got, or that he was up to his eyes in the Dark Arts, knew hexes, was 
a greasy little oddball, went around with a gang of Slytherins.  But 
they've got no more desire to come off like a pathetic victim than 
Snape does.  Or Harry does--he complains about the Dursley's 
treatment, especially the way he's 
outnumbered/outweighed/overpowered, but he never honestly tries to 
gain sympathy by explaining how they hurt him.  Draco, if asked why 
he hated Harry, I doubt would ever admit Harry hurt his feelings and 
made him feel worthless.  Nor would Harry ever say Draco ever really 
made him feel badly. The correct stance to take always is that that 
other person is a jerk and that makes you hate him, but however many 
times he tries desperately to hurt you, even in a totally unfair 
fight, he doesn't, because you are above him.

-m