Scene with likeable James WAS: Re: Eileen Pince

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 156319

Alla wrote: 
> > <snip> What do you mean when you wrote Harry ""stopped playing by
the rules of the pack"? Who invented those rules?
> 
Irene responded:
> Sirius and James, obviously. I don't think we'll get ESE!Lupin, but
Pippin's doubts about what would have happened between Marauders if
Lupin said "I don't want to run as werewolf anymore, I'll just stay
quietly in my room" - they are quite founded, IMO.

Alla wrote:
> > 
> > You said that they were only likeable to their pack.
> 
Irene responded:
> I said that they only bothered to be decent, honourable and friendly
towards members of their pack.
> 
Carol responds:
I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that I'm not even sure
that James and Sirius were "decent, honourable and friendly towards
members of their pack."

We have both of them attacking Severus unprovoked, James hexing other
people in the hallways because they annoy him, James trying to attract
the attention of the girls, especially Lily, by showing off; and
Sirius ignoring the girls who think he's attractive. So if they're
popular, as Harry assumes, it's because James is good at Quidditch and
Sirius is handsome, not because they're decent and kind and honorable
and brave and good. It's also possible that no one stepped up to
defend Severus because they were afraid of James. I don't think we
have any actual evidence in the Pensieve scene that the two were
popular. I agree with Irene that they didn't bother (so far as we
know) to be decent, etc., outside their very small pack.

But how did they treat their fellow pack members? James entertains the
bored Sirius by attacking Severus and indulges him by putting the
Snitch away. Sirius says he wishes it was a full moon, completely
ignoring Remus's feelings on the matter. Sirius also contemptuously
tells Remus that he doesn't need to study for Transfiguration (after
all, he's an Animagus). He doesn't even indulge Remus by helping *him*
study. Sirius sneers at Wormtail, saying that he's about to wet his
pants. I don't see any affection on his part for anyone except James
(his equal as a pureblood who rejected Slytherin?). he seems to treat
the others, both within and outside the "pack," with haughty disdain
similar to Cousin Bellatrix's in the GoF Pensieve scene.

James takes it upon himself to entertain the others (either by showing
off or attacking Severus because Sirius is bored) and jokes about the
werewolf question on the DADA exam. Remus goes along with it by joking
back but becomes concerned when James speaks about it too loudly.
Later we find out that James referred to Remus's condition as "your
furry little problem"--a minor problem that he minimizes and jokes
about. His behavior strikes me as something like Arthur Weasley's
attitude toward Muggles, a condescending fondness.

Their nicknames indicate the way they see one another--as Animagi and
a werewolf--and their behavior in the Pensieve shows their relative
status in the pack. James is the leader; Sirius is his best mate;
Remus is interesting because he's a werewolf and provides them with
adventures on full moon nights as well as the incentive to become
Animagi in the first place; Wormtail is merely tolerated, treated with
contempt because he's "thick." (Sirius doesn't seem to like him; James
is teasing and condescending.)

So the question arises: suppose that Remus hadn't had a "furry little
problem"? Would he have been interesting to James and sirius? Would
either of them (much less Peter) have become Animagi? It seems to me
that they see Remus solely as a werewolf, the reason for their full
moon adventures. Certainly, they don't respect him as a prefect. They
don't engage him in conversation on any subject other than werewolves,
and Sirius snubs him when he wants to study.

I'm not questioning James's later courage, and AFWK he saved Severus's
life the next year, which certainly seems honorable based on our
current information. But during the Pensieve scene, I don't see either
honor and decency within the pack itself, though I don't see their
opposites either until the unprovoked attack on Severus, when none of
the pack members shows to advantage. And I don't see any real
affection on James's part for Remus or Peter, only a sort of tolerance
based on their shared experiences as Animagi and werewolf, and not
even tolerance on Sirius's part, much less friendliness, toward either
Remus or Peter. That view of them (Remus as a werewolf and Peter as an
inrerior) led to trouble later when Sirius suspected Remus of being
the spy and underestimated Peter's resentment and capacity for treachery.

Carol, who thinks that Teen!Sirius and Teen!James relate to each other
as people but to Remus and Peter as Moony and Wormtail, as far as we
can tell from that single scene