[HPforGrownups] Slytherins (was Re: /Hurt/comfort/Elkins post about Draco

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 156409

> bboyminn:
>
> I'm favoring James (jamess) view on this. I think Wynnleaf has
> misinterpreted that scene. The point Dumbledore is making is not that
> Slytherin is bad, but that Harry has chosen to be selfless rather than
> self-serving. He has chosen to serve others rather than serve his own
> ambitions of status and wealth.

Magpie:
But doesn't that make him better than a Slytherin since he showed his wish 
to serve others by not wanting to be in that house?  Especially since Harry 
is really just not wanting to be in the house that Voldemort and the kid he 
doesn't like is in?  As far as Harry's concerned the whole house smells like 
poo.

Steve:
>
> Now we are all selfserving and ambitious to some extent, as is Harry,
> and that is not a bad thing. This has been pointed out before, that
> none of the Slytherin characteristics are bad in and of themselves.

Magpie:
They're not virtues either, like courage is.

Steve:
> Further, we see a very warped view of Slytherin in only seeing it from
> the view of Draco and the people closely associated with him. The
> truth is we can't judge /most/ Slytherins because we don't get to see
> /most/ Slytherins.

Magpie:
You know, after 6 books I think this wears a little thin.  I know JKR said 
all Slytherins aren't Draco, but we've actually seen more Slytherins than 
we've seen most houses and they're all usually doing something negative.  I 
don't feel like I'm seeing a tiny sliver of Slytherin in the books, even if 
I don't know all of them.  Even Hermione, who tries to be accurate about 
such things, casually worries that "some Slytherin" will tell Umbridge if 
they're seen.  She could have just meant the IS, but it seemed like she said 
Slytherin meaning literally any Slytherin.

Steve:
>
> To the idea that Slytherins are uniformly depicted as 'ugly', in
> return I must ask 'By who?'. They are depicted that way by rivals.

Magpie:
They're depicted that way by the narrator, sometimes through Harry, 
sometimes not through Harry.  Though of course, lots of characters in HP are 
funny-looking or have homely features.  Draco's description is actually 
fairly neutral.  He's pointy-faced, but that's not necessarily ugly (I think 
Phineas is a bit pointy, or maybe he just has a pointy beard).  Blaise 
sounds attractive.

Steve:
For
> example, when Cedric Diggory was a rival to Gryffindor, he was
> depicted as a useless airhead pretty boy. Once Gryffindor got to know
> him, and found out he was fair minded, the preception by our
> point-of-view and point-of-view influencing characters changed for the
> better.

Magpie:
No, Cedric was always clearly a good guy who was also handsome.  The 
Gryffindor's claims that he was less than that were always obviously colored 
by their resentment for his winning Quidditch that one time.  There's even a 
joke about how Harry just then realized Cedric was a useless pretty boy when 
he finds out he's taking Cho to the dance.  We the readers, as far as I 
remember, always know Cedric's a particularly good-looking boy, and nice. 
Cedric's very handsome and Harry takes notice.

I'm sure that if Harry was friends with a Slytherin he'd start to see 
him/her in a more positive way, but his casual interaction with them now is 
pretty consistent.  In HBP we get two speaking Slytherins we've never seen 
and they both get bigoted lines. That doesn't mean JKR isn't tricking us 
with Harry's limited pov, but I think this is why I've never liked the "good 
Slytherin" stories.  Seems to me it's set up that healing the rift is a lot 
harder than just meeting a nice person in a green tie seventh year.  I'd 
rather see the Slytherins we know and the Gryffindors we know have to work 
together.  Harry can still have gotten things wrong about them.

-m