Re: This shall be Salman Rushdie´s words (Spoiler????)!?

[wynnleaf]

No: HPFGUIDX 156631


> > wynnleaf:
> > As I read it, Rushdie was setting up a series of statements akin -- as
> > far as construction goes -- to the following:
> > 
> > It is winter, and there is snow on the ground.
> > 
> 
> Neri:
> Well, it was more like "our theory is that it's winter. We propose
> that there must be snow on the ground. That there was in fact a ruse,
> cooked between winter and snow, to ensure that there is snow on the
> ground. So is it winter or not? It's plain to see that everything
> follows from this"

wynnleaf
I was trying to show you a simplified construction of his type of
comments, not reproduce Rushdie's comments into winter/snow.  
 
> Neri:
> You are certainly correct that the opposite of a true if/then
> statement is not necessarily also true. However, this "fallacy" is
> simply irrelevant to our discussion. That is, I quite agree that if
> the statement "if Snape is good, then Dumbledore must be alive" is
> true, this does not mean that the opposite statement: "if Dumbledore
> is alive, then Snape must be good" is also true. But I have never made
> such an opposite statement, so I beg to be acquitted from using this
> fallacy. 

wynnleaf
The only if/then statement that Rushdie really came close to saying
was that if Snape was evil, DD must be dead.  You *did* turn that
around and say that based on Rushdie's comments, if DD was dead, then
Snape must be evil.  So yes, you fell into the fallacy.

> Neri:
> To be precise, Rushdie's last comment (according to the transcript
> upthread, anyway) was: 
> 
> "So, is Snape good or bad? It's plain to see, everything follows from
> this."
> 
> The words "follows from this" support the view of Rushdie's argument
> as an if/then statement. I assume here that in "everything" he also
> includes Dumbledore being alive or dead.

> Note that Rushdie doesn't mention any other reasons for Dumbledore
> being alive, and still he concludes that "Dumbledore can't really be
> dead". I don't see from what he can conclude that other than from his
> previous sentence "Snape is in fact still a good guy".

wynnleaf
Rushdie's comments basically said that he thought Snape was good.  And
that Snape and DD worked together on a plan to fake DD's death.  He
said (I think, some words were possibly unintelligible) that if Snape
was evil, DD must be dead.  But he never even implied that if DD was
dead, Snape must be evil.  That was *your* assumption, and where you
took his acceptable theory (albeit conceivably untrue), and flipped it
around into a fallacy.

The "follows from this" etc. was referring most likely to his own
statements that he thought Snape was good and worked together with DD
to fake his death.  In other words, DD's being alive (if he was) was
dependant on Snape being good (apparently Rushdie's opinion, although
not necessarily correct).  

So when JKR said that his opinion was correct, even if she actually
meant to comment on his entire theory -- which I sincerely doubt, but
apparently you think she was -- she would be affirming his theory that
Snape was good, he and DD worked together on a plan, and their plan
was dependent on Snape's goodness.  However, she did not affirm DD
being alive, but specifically pointed out that aspect of Rushdie's
theory was not correct.  

Basically, you seem to be saying that JKR was really saying "your
opinion is correct" as some sort of totally convoluted way of telling
a man who had just said his theory was that Snape was good that he was
really evil.  A sort of "Your opinion is correct and you're opinion is
wrong."  If JKR really was intending to do that -- well, she's a lot
worse of a communicator than her other interviews would indicate.

Still, I continue to point out that I personally don't think she was
affirming Snape's loyalty at all, or even trying to address that.  I
think she was simply trying to find something she *could* comment on
without giving anything away, and picked his last comment.

In any case, every actual observer that I've heard or read their
comments about this thought she was affirming Snape's goodness.  I
prefer to hope that she wasn't, because I don't like the idea of her
giving that away.  But I have yet to read any report where the
observer thought she was affirming Snape's evil.

wynnleaf, who won't continue this discussion as it is rather pointless
until such time as we have a video of the interview.