The Unloved Son (was Re: Could I be wrong about Snape being evil?)

[Sydney]

No: HPFGUIDX 156674


 
> Lupinlore 
>     
> <<Now that IS an incredibly interesting theory.....<snip> It also
goes well with a certain psychological view of the Snape-
> <Harry- 
> <Dumbledore triangle.  To wit, Snape is incredibly bitter because he 
> <feels himself to be the unloved son in this scenario, while the 
> father figure lavishes affection and concern on the younger and (in 
> Snape's eyes) less worthy child. 

Sydney:

Holy crap!  I'm pretty sure this is the first time Salman Rushdie has
INCREASED consensus... we should send him a card or something!

Yes, indeed, I think most Snape fans see, and identify with, Snape's
anxiety about being loved, or being worthy. "Insecurity" would be
Snape's middle name, along with "snarky" and "potions".  I agree with
Tonks though that Dumbledore, as standing for a Christian god or "the
epitome of goodness" as JKR calls him, DOES love Snape, and anyhow
Snape's issues with this go back much further, before Harry was on the
scene. A lot of what HP is about is how 'the boy is father to the
man', and surely there's a reason Snape's parents have been
introduced?  I think I wrote on another post that everything in Snape
goes back to shame and guilt, which this website defines as:

"Shame holds the horrifying beliefs of being unworthy and unlovable.
... When you are held prisoner by shame, the perceived deficits within
yourself are so humiliating that you will go to extreme lengths to
hide the flawed self."

(wow, Snape should have a look at this whole webpage, it would help
him a lot:  http://www.angriesout.com/grown18.htm )

Lupinlore:

> <In this scenario, one of DD's emotional mistakes is in mistaking 
> the reason that Occlumency fails.  It wasn't because Snapey-poo 
> couldn't get over his feelings about James, it was because he 
> couldn't get over his feelings about HARRY. 

Sydney:

Oh lord no!  I mean, even moments after he had killed Dumbledore,
Snape is still going on about JAMES.  Emotionally, it's all about
James, baby, and although Dumbledore is part of it, surely it's even
more about... *drags cookie on string slowly along carpet...
fooooollow the cookie... fooooollow the cookie...*... Lily?  

These books are not as simple as they seem, mind you, when it comes to
psychology.. I think there's three levels of stuff going on here.  On
the topmost narrative level I think there's the Snape/Dumbledore/Harry
thing, but I don't see it as so much a direct emotional rivalry.

Wynleaf puts it better than I do:
  
> But until HBP, Dumbledore was not really spending much time at all 
> with Harry.  While Snape may have felt a jealousy toward the way 
> Dumbledore (in Snape's opinion) might let Harry get by with all 
> sorts of rule breaking, there really wasn't any *relationship* to be 
> particularly jealous over.  It wasn't until HBP that DD and Harry 
> visited with each other more than a few times per year.  Yet in HBP, 
> we actually see less overt hatred of Snape toward Harry.

Sydney:

Snape's issues were there before Dumbledore has even MET Harry.  I
think the disagreement Snape had over Harry with Dumbledore was
actually tactical.  Dumbledore himself tells Harry that he has been
watching over him as the future defeater of Voldemort, and that the
power that he will use to do this is Love.  I think Snape took one
look at this plan and laughed his head off until he realized
Dumbledore wasn't kidding.  I think Snape has a plan of his own for
the destruction of Voldemort that features not so much love as crazy
amounts of scary destructive magic.  So half the time Snape is talking
to Dumbledore about Harry I think he's actually saying, "Hey, boss, so
this little self-absorbed lazy rule-breaking twerp is the core of your
love plan, huh?  Have you given any more thought to my Giant Nuclear
Curse plan at all by the way?"  I've seen this dynamic a million times
at work, so I know whereof I speak; if you wind up on the project that
some vice-president thinks is going to sink the studio, you will be
public enemy no. 1 no matter what you do.

That I think is what's happening on the overt narrative level.  On the
level of what the heck is going on that makes Snape so crazy, I think
that's SO about Lily.  Snape's attitude Harry just SCREAMS guilt to
me, guilt that he's displaced onto James in exactly the same way that
Harry's displaced his guilt over Sirius onto Snape.  That's called Irony.

The last level is all the psychological/symbolic/Jungian stuff which I
think is pretty essential when it comes to the deep structure of the
story.  Snape is the Shadow, and Harry is the Authentic Self, and
Dumbledore is something-or-other.  I dunno, I have to spend more time
writing up something about that.  On this level it seems SUCH a red
flag that Snape is such an expert at repression that he actually
teaches it as a subject.  Speaking of Occlumency:


Wynleaf adds:

>  As a 
> newly turned spy, who taught Snape occlumency and trained him on 
> what to do as a spy?  I'd think even someone with natural talent in 
> occlumency still needs a teacher, and Snape must have had a master 
> teacher.  Since I doubt Voldemort would want to teach a highly 
> talented student the highest levels of occlumency, it wouldn't be 
> surprising if Snape spent a lot of time one-on-one with DD, learning 
> occlumency.

Sydney:

I have to interrupt for a sec here and address the 'who taught Snape
occlumency' thing.  I think it's actually fairly clear in the text
that it WAS Voldemort, or done by a DE (Bellatrix?) with V-mort's 
say-so.  My reasoning for this is:

Did Snape know Occlumency before he joined the Death Eaters?  I think
he tells us himself that he didn't:

"Then you will find yourself easy prey for the Dark Lord!' said Snape
savagely. 'Fools who wear their hearts proudly on their sleeves, who
cannot control their emotions, who wallow in sad memories and allow
themselves to be provoked so easily - weak people, in other words -
they stand no chance against his powers! He will penetrate your mind
with absurd ease, Potter!"

Of course you could read this as Snape NOT talking about himself, but
if you do, I think you read fiction in an entirely different way than
I can even comprehend, so there's not much point debating.  To me this
is transparently Snape telling Harry how he was recruited-- wallowing
in sad memories and rage, and Voldemort walked right into his brain. 
It's, like, symbolism or something. Now:

Did Snape know Occlumency when he was sent to spy on Dumbledore?

Well, probably.  I mean, you wouldn't send someone to spy on someone
in the Potterverse WITHOUT knowing they were an Occlumens, would you?
Voldemort, we may safetly assume, would have ensured Pettigrew could
conceal his thoughts from the Order, and that Barty Crouch could do
the same from Dumbledore, otherwise all his plans would have been
ruined.  Bellatrix "V-mort's no. 1 fan" Lestrange teaches it to Draco,
so it's not like it's some crazy taboo among the DE's or anything. 

So, yeah, I'm pretty sure V-mort (or random DE henchman) taught Snape
Occlumency.  This goes better anyways with its negative aura of
repression and blockage, as well as explaining Snape's cluelessness
about how to teach it without just battering at the subject until
somehow it works, as I suppose it's how he was taught.  I'm cool with
the idea of D-dore coaching Snape to another level or something, but I
don't think it's necessary, and anyhow Snape doesn't seem like someone
who has successfully had a lot of therapy or positive experiences in
the whole interpersonal relationship thing.  Just my 2 bits.


Tonks:

>Snape does not want DD to give his life for Snape's soul 
> > either. Snape would rather die for DD, than to have DD die for >him.

Sydney:

Well, duh.  I mean, yes, that is what so obviously is going on on the
tower. 

-- Sydney, wondering if Salman Rushdie,is like, surfing the 'net for
Snape theories...