RE Good Reasons for DD to die

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 156709

Carol earlier:
> > I absolutely agree that Snape had essentially *no* choice on the
tower except to die uselessly with DD or to kill Dumbledore and look
like a treacherous coward.
>
> Abergoat writes:
> I think the choice was a bit easier than that. My take on the tower
scene is that if Snape didn't kill Dumbledore himself the Death Eaters
would make Draco do it...provided Dumbledore didn't expire first from
the potion Harry shoved down his throat. Dumbledore seemed to be
fading fast. So if Snape didn't become a murderer than either Harry or
Draco would have...the scene in the cave made it very clear that
Dumbledore thought the potion was killing him, and Harry said 'This
> one will!' (paraphased). Whether Harry went on trial for that memory
> or not, Harry would have blamed himself. Not good for our hero's soul.
> But now Harry gets to blame Snape until he can deal with is own actions.
>
>
> Carol earlier:
> > What I don't understand, though, is how making an Unbreakable Vow
> > could be regarded as "the ultimate gift" or why you think that DD
> > would wish him to make one. Surely DD wouldn't compel him against
> > his will.
>
Abergoat:
> Although I agree that Dumbledore wouldn't use an unbreakable vow I
> think the poster is right - DD did compel Snape, by checkmating him
> with the choice between creating 16 year old murderer or fulfilling
> the vow Snape made with Narcissa.
>
> I bet Snape wanted to take the easy way out and just let the vow
kill him as suggested by the conversation Hagrid overheard between
Snape and Dumbledore. But DD didn't let Snape do that.


Carol again:
You're contradicting yourself a bit here. First you say that the
choice was easy and then you say that he wanted to take the easy way
out (dying) but chose not to, so in that sense dying was the "easy"
choice, or the *easier* choice, because it would have seemed more
heroic. OTOH, it would, paradoxically, have involved disloyalty to
Dumbledore, and, again paradoxically, it would have been cowardly to
die to save his good name without accomplishing the essential task
that DD had set him (save Harry and Draco and go with the DEs).

So, IMO, there was nothing easy about his choice, though I agree that
he would have preferred to die rather than kill DD. If he tried to
save DD (which I agree would be futile given that DD was apparently
dying and certainly would have been killed by the DEs if Snape didn't
do it--Draco had already made it clear that he couldn't do it
himself), he, Snape, would die, too, either killed by the UV or
murdered by the DEs. His death would accomplish nothing except to
clear his name and maybe save his soul (so in that sense, it's the
"easy" choice" as opposed to the right one, which makes him appear to
be a treacherous murderer and almost certainly splits his soul). But
Snape's death wouldn't save DD (nothing can) or Draco or Harry, (whom
I believe Snape knew was hiding there in his Invisibility Cloak. Like
Draco, he would have seen the second broom; unlike Draco, he would
have deduced what it meant.) And Snape would have deduced that the
moment DD died, Harry would rush out to fight the DEs and likely be
killed. *That*, IMO, was the crucial factor that made dying the
*wrong* choice, whether or not it was easy.

The other choice was to kill DD, which enabled him to get Draco and
the DEs off the tower before Harry could rush out at them and get the
DEs out of Hogwarts. It also enabled him to stay alive and keep his
cover with the DEs. I agree that this was what DD wanted ("Severus,
please!") and that it was the right choice. But I don't think it was
easy, as the torment on Snape's face indicates, both when he looks at
DD and realizes what DD wants him to do (whether or not there's an
exchanged message via Legilimency, Snape's expression doesn't change
until he looks at DD and he doesn't raise his wand until DD says,
"Severus, please!") and again the second time Harry calls him a coward
("Kill me like you killed him!") And, of course, Snape doesn't kill or
Crucio the wandless Harry, but Harry probably takes him at his word
that he's saving Harry for the Dark Lord.

Anyway, I'm not exactly sure where we disagree, except that I don't
think Harry would become a "murderer" because the DEs would kill DD
before that happened and Draco had already lowered his wand, forcing
Snape's hand (Provision three of the UV). I *do* think that DD had
made Snape promise to do whatever he ordered, just as he made Harry
do. Or maybe he made him promise to keep his vow even if it meant
killing DD himself. Perhaps DD knew it would come to that, but Snape
hoped it wouldn't and that he could find a loophole in the UV and
that's what they were quarreling about in the forest. At any rate, DD
would not have compelled Snape to obey him using an Unbreakable Vow,
but he certainly expected Snape to keep his word, just as he expected
Harry to do so in the cave.

When I say that Snape had virtually no choice, I mean that he had to
choose what was right over what was easy, and the easy thing would be
to die pointlessly proving to Harry that he was on the side of good
before Harry died himself. He knew what he had to do, IMO; he just
didn't want to do it. And now, having made the right choice, he has to
live with the hatred of the WW as his wretched reward.

Carol, still confused about how a UV could be a "gift" and hoping that
katssirius will clarify her position