OFH SNAPE was: Script from JKR's reading/ About Snape and Dumbledore

[snow15145]

No: HPFGUIDX 156880

Snow (me) previously:

Or if Snape is good and bad
and Just Out for Himself! (Confusing but 
doable, I have an entire theory on this one
with canon(s)) 
I've been on both sides of the fence about Snape and this truly is 
the only way it works.

Neri:
Hmmm. You may have noticed that I was careful not to write "Snape is
bad", since this actually doesn't follow from Rushdie's argument. But
lets hear your theory. We never have enough of Snape theories

Snow:

Well since you asked


Let's start with accepting everything Faith has to offer us about 
Snape throughout the series and attempt to come to some concluding 
questions. 

(1)Snape has shown animosity towards Harry since their first meeting 

Snape's first face-to-face encounter with Harry shows us that he 
carries no love for the boy when he singles him out and embarrasses 
him for his lack of knowledge. SS pg. 137 
This is but the beginning of a long beret of examples.  

What type of conclusion could we come to about Snape's treatment of 
Harry? 

(a)Snape really doesn't like Harry 
(b)Snape is evil
(c)Snape is training Harry for an opponent that is much more fatal 
than a barrage of insults  

(2)Snape has saved Harry on several occasions

Snape saved Harry from his bucking broom that Quirrell bewitched and 
he carried Harry from the Lake after the dementors attacked. Snape 
was also seen as one of Crouch Jr's enemies according to the Foe 
Glass. Snape drew the deatheaters away from the castle in the last 
book before they could do anymore damage and gave Harry a few sparing 
lessons on his way out. 

What conclusion can we derive from Snape's actions?

(a)Snape had to save Harry because he would have to answer to 
Dumbledore
but
Dumbledore's dead in the last example so
(b)Snape is just prolonging Harry's life so that Voldemort can take 
him down himself
(c)Snape needs Harry to kill Voldemort

(3)What side of the fence is Snape sitting on

Snape has been on Dumbledore's side since the beginning of the series 
but we know that he was on the opposing side with much credit given 
to his dark art skills. Dumbledore has vouched for Snape's 
credibility many times claiming that he has turned from his wicked 
ways and is now no more a deatheater than himself. 
Snape's biggest disappointment to date has been losing the Order of 
Merlin where he became unhinged but to his disappointment was a bit 
of gleam in Dumbledore's eye 
POA pg. 420 "Well there you have it, Severus," said Dumbledore 
calmly. "Unless you are suggesting that Harry and Hermione are able 
to be in two places at once
" 
Snape stood there, seething, staring from Fudge
to Dumbledore, whose 
eyes were twinkling behind his glasses. 
"Fellow seems quite unbalanced," said Fudge

"Oh, he's not unbalanced," said Dumbledore quietly. "He's just 
suffered a severe disappointment."

Conclusion?

(a)Snape is Dumbledore's man even though Dumbledore is dead at his 
hand
(b)Dumbledore trusted Snape because he knew that Snape needs Harry to 
kill Voldemort and/or Snape needs an Order of Merlin for (?)
(c)Snape is at the very least under Dumbledore's thumb and at best 
Dumbledore's right-hand man


The following is a summed up conclusion that I have come to and the 
reasons as to why

My Snape-journey experience on this list began with accepting Snape 
as written: dark, greasy and abusive.  I soon learned, through many 
readings from authors on this forum and their interpretations, that 
there was a fair argument to oppose my way of thought. I then became 
a fence sitter on my original belief. Years went by and I accepted 
that Snape must be DDM, because there were too many situations where 
Snape could have chosen (if he were evil to the core) to show his 
true colors but did not. The most recent book with all its innuendos 
had left me feeling extremely indecisive yet again. It seemed that no 
matter what shoes I attempt to put Snape in, they simply did not fit. 
So I went back to the drawing board but this time I was enlightened 
by so much information from not only the books but also this forum 
that I had a new perspective; what could make Snape appear to be all 
three people, DDM, ESE, and OFH? The answer was really very simple
he 
was all three! The tricky part was connecting it. We all need to know 
why Snape went to the dark side and why he returned (it is the key 
George
and Diana agrees). Speculation is, unfortunately our only 
alternative to making a conclusive, beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt 
determination of who Snape is and which side he is on. 

It appears to me that whatever it is that Snape needs that has caused 
him to act the way he has lies within Harry's fight against 
Voldemort. Let me make an analogy to this statement. If you have 
placed money on a fighter to win and this fighter is young, 
inexperienced and doesn't train for the fight would you expect him to 
win? Another question, what does it normally take for a fighter to 
win? If we substitute Rocky as the fighter, I would say immediately 
the answer would be Eye of the Tiger. You have to want the win enough 
that even when the odds are not in your favor you will succeed. Now 
if we use Harry as the Young, Inexperienced Fighter (which he is) 
then he needs to be trained
he also needs the Eye of the Tiger. We 
have already witnessed what Harry is capable of when he has the Eye 
of the Tiger just look at Sirius' death. When Harry is working 
towards saving someone else he's unstoppable! I would have to 
conclude that Harry has been being trained up for the past six years 
(and many times through Snape's involvement). Even Harry would agree: 

SS pg. 302 "He's a funny man, Dumbledore. I think he sort of wanted 
to give me a chance. I think he knows more or less everything that 
goes on here, you know. I reckon he had a pretty good idea we were 
going to try, and instead of stopping us, he just taught us enough to 
help." 

From Harry's own mouth comes the words "he just taught us" and the 
training continues up to and including the end of book six when Snape 
reminds Harry that he needs to close his mind. 

HBP pg. 603 "Blocked again and again and again until you learn to 
keep your mouth shut and your mind closed, Potter!"
 
Why would Snape remind Harry about his need for Occlumency unless 
Snape is attempting to once again teach Harry? If Snape were Evil, 
why would he have said this to Harry at all, how would this serve a 
purpose for EvilSnape? 

No matter how much Dumbledore appears to trust Snape there is one 
line that tells `me' that Dumbledore only trusts Snape because he 
knows what Snape needs and wants
 something that Dumbledore has 
carefully controlled that Snape never fulfills.  (Which is apparently 
the Order of Merlin to set him free from whatever
 The end of POA 
shows Snape drooling intently (POA pg. 386) and then irate at the 
thought of the Merlin award fading (starting on pg 419 of POA) 

The `one line' in reference is when Harry first dives into the 
pencieve (in GOF) but towards the end of this scene when Dumbledore 
finds Snape claiming that the scars on his and Karkaroff's arms are 
returning, and Dumbledore says with a sigh, "A connection I could 
have made without assistance". (GOF pg. 598)
This line was said in front of Harry and gave such an air to `me' 
that Dumbledore was very unsatisfied with the latest details from 
Snape. 

Dumbledore has exhibited many such tendencies towards Snape in front 
of Harry usually to Snape's embarrassment and rage. These tendencies 
to Snape are very bland and put off easily but are there nonetheless 
and emphasize Dumbledore's control of Snape's behavior and successes. 

COS pg 82 when Dumbledore calmly reminds Snape that Harry and Ron are 
not in his House and therefore He could not determine their 
punishment. 
Or on pg 144 when Dumbledore through twinkling blue eyes firmly 
states that Harry is innocent until proven guilty. 
These are just two examples from the same book that obtain the same 
result, infuriating Snape in front of Harry. 
These are not isolated incidents of this type of occurrence. 
Dumbledore, more times than not, is quite pleased at the reaction he 
receives from Snape when he is thwarted from succeeding. It tells me 
that Dumbledore may trust Snape but he has no specific love driven 
motive to do so. 
My impression is that Dumbledore trusts Snape only to the degree that 
he is no longer a deatheater. He trusts him because Snape gave 
Dumbledore the ultimate information that initially brought down 
Voldemort. If Voldemort were to become aware of the fact that Snape 
gave Dumbledore the dark lords victims next location, Snape would be 
dead. If Snape hadn't told Dumbledore useful information, when he was 
caught spying over the Prophecy, the Ministry would have tried him as 
a deatheater. (Talk about being caught between a rock and a hard 
place) 
Now this scenario would appear to make Snape look like a coward on 
either side of good or bad and what is it that enraged Snape at the 
end of HBP, oh yeah "Don't call me coward". And what would be the 
opposite reaction to Snape if he were to earn The Order of Merlin
 
you guessed it Hero. 
So Snape's main ambition is to clear his name by achieving such a 
feet. But then there is Dumbledore who needs Snape's help (and he is 
quite useful) so Dumbledore is not in any way saddened at Snape's 
near miss in receiving his trophy for the capture of Sirius. This 
tends to make me feel as though Dumbledore is using Snape. Just 
because Dumbledore trusts Snape it does not directly follow that 
Snape's motives are pure to Dumbledore's cause. It only shows that 
Dumbledore is aware of Snape's wants or needs and that he can be used 
by Dumbledore to achieve his own goal because of it. 

If there is one reason alone as to why I would feel Snape is not 
simply DDM it would be because the majority is usually wrong. There 
are way too many persons readily acceptant that Snape is all out for 
DD and His cause with disregard to JKR's statements against such 
portrayals that Snape is a good person. Yes, we have seen the good in 
him but it's not for Harry and it's doubtful that it is for love of 
Dumbledore, so what else could it be? 

Likewise if there is a reason I believe Snape is not purely Evil, I 
would have to say that since Dumbledore is dead there is very little 
reason for Snape to continue to allow Harry to live and to take it 
one step further by reminding Harry that he needs to continue to 
practice Occlumency. 

It only follows that if the two statements above have been dismissed 
the only reasonable option open for review would be that Snape is out 
for his own means which coincide with Harry's success. As much as he 
may loathe Harry, Snape needs the boy to win the fight! 

Just one last tidbit to add
When Hagrid heard the argument between 
Dumbledore and Snape; why would an EvilSnape beg that he wanted out 
if he wasn't in? And what would make a Dumbledore'sManSnape even ask 
to be released? 

Snape is trapped. To move forward he has to go back. 
You don't just turn in your resignation to the deatheater brigade and 
to be purely accepted back into the fold you would have to really 
appear to be loyal to its cause. Dumbledore covered Snape royally on 
that front even though it was with his own blood. Dumbledore was 
Snape's only protection to reach his goal, now he has to go back to 
ensure the fate of going forward into the future.  

Snape is out for himself; it's just that his goal lies parallel with 
Dumbledore's plan and Harry's future. The one thing they all have in 
common is the demise of Voldemort. 

Cheers
Snow