UnbreakableVow/Snape&DD/FamilyBias/Horcrux/Lupin/Wolfsbane/TimeTravel/Nagini

[Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)]

No: HPFGUIDX 157215

Just Carol wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/156621>:

<< What I don't understand, though, is how making an Unbreakable Vow
could be regarded as "the ultimate gift" or why you think that DD
would wish him to make one. Surely DD wouldn't compel him against his
will. That isn't trust, and I don't see how it can be regarded as a
gift. >>

Few people can imagine Dumbledore demanding an UV from anyone, not
even an allegedly repentant Death Eater, but some imagine that Snape
insisted on giving DD a UV and the question is whether DD would be
stern and principled enough to refuse it or kindly and lax enough to
accept it.

The usual idea is that Snape wanted to give DD a UV to convince DD
that he is trustworthy and his conversion is sincere. I think
Katssirius may have been suggesting that Snape wanted to give a UV 'as
a gift' to DD, to show how much he loved (in words, how grateful he
was to) DD.

While writing this, it occurred to me that Snape might have wanted to
take a UV to DD as a deterrant against relapse. Like some recovering
alcoholics use Antabuse, a drug whose purpose is that it will cause
severe liver damage from even a little bit of ethanol. They figure
they don't have enough willpower to avoid the temptation of alcohol
just because they recognize all the harm it has already done them
(including cumulative liver damage) but figure they'll have enough
willpower to avoid alcohol = instant death or serious disability. Now
I have also recalled an anecdote of a man who arranged to stick to his
diet by contracting to give $1000 to the American Nazi Party if he
didn't meet his weight loss goals.

Lupinlore wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/156647>;

<< And DD's answer is uncompromising. He in effect says, "I don't love
you the way you want, Severus. Harry is my darling, you are not. So
yes, I have to die, and no, I will not ask my darling to do it. And
furthermore, I won't let Draco do it, either." >>

Dumbledore never had to admit to himself if that was what he was
saying. He could have told himself the same thing he surely told Snape
if Snape asked the question: "Severus, they are children with their
souls still untorn. It is the place of an adult to spare chidren this
burden and protect their innocence a while longer."

I think DD is stern and principled enough that that is what he would
have said even if he loved Severus most.

colebiancardi wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/156644>:

<< Draco "hates" Harry & Ron, for no real reason other than they truck
with non pure-bloods and his bias from his parents. Ron "hates" Draco
because of those biases. Harry "hates" Draco because of those biases
as well. >>

Draco hates Harry partly (IMHO mostly) because of that incident on the
Hogwarts Express where Draco offered his friendship to Harry and put
out his hand to shake and Harry insulted him and refused his hand: 

<< "You'll soon find out some wizarding families are much better than
others, Potter. You don't want to go making friends with the wrong
sort. I can help you there." 

He held out his hand to shake Harry's, but Harry didn't take it.

"I think I can tell who the wrong sort are for myself, thanks," he
said coolly. >>

That incident began when Ron heard Draco's name and sniggered. Draco
felt insulted so he insulted Ron right back: "all the Weasleys have
red hair, freckles, and more children than they can afford." Draco's
*choice* of return insults came from what he'd heard his father say
about Weasleys -- that fistfight in the bookstore revealed some
serious *personal* dislike between Lucius and Arthur. If he hadn't
recognized Ron's family name, he might have insulted Ron's big feet or
the dirt on his nose.

I don't know why Ron sniggered -- anything from remembering all the
bad things his father had said about Lucius Malfoy to the reaction
that I had to the movie's *little* Tom Felton saying: "My name is
Malfoy. Draco Malfoy." in just the same tone as Sean Connery saying:
"The name is Bond. James Bond."

Anyway, it seems to me that the reason that Draco hates Ron rather
than, say, ignoring him is anger at Ron's role in that unpleasant
incident and jealousy that it was Ron who got Harry's friendship.

Ron hates Draco because Draco so often and so successfully taunts him
about his relative poverty.

Harry first took a dislike to Draco because Draco spoke with snobbery
and arrogance, then hated Draco for Ron's sake.

Ryan rlace2003 wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/156670>: 

<< Well, Harry destroyed a horcrux in CoS, but he didn't die, so that
hypothesis [ in order to destroy a horcrux someone has to die] doesn't
seem very solid. >>

The basilisk died. Maybe it was big and old and magic enough to count
as 'someone' rather than 'something'.

Tinktonks wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/156778>:

<<  But I can't see anyone else getting all snuggly with Lupin ; ) >>

Oh, there are any number of female Potterfans who want to get all
snuggly with Remus, not just me, and and we can't believe that all
witches are too bigotted to want the same. Anyway, spies get snuggly
with outright repulsive people if that's how they can get the
information they seek or preserve their cover.

Just Carol wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/156858>:

<< Evidently [Wolfsbane Potion] isn't available from wizarding
apothecaries or St. Mungo's, either, or the werewolf problem would be
solved. >>

I like to think it is available but expensive (because only a few
superb potioners (potioneers inm JKR's language) can make it, so they
can charge monopolistic prices). Lupin has no job and very little
money, and the werewolves in the tramp encampment have no jobs, even
less money, and no knowledge that there is such a thing as Wolfsbane
Potion. I think that the Werewolf Supportive Services Unit should
distribute free Wolfsbane Potion to those who need it -- maybe even
send visiting nurses to observe that they take it correctly. But I
think even more strongly that the Werewolf Supportive Services Unit
should take the bitten children discarded by their parents into some
kind of foster care, even if they have to use force to take them away
from the werewolves in the tramp encampment.

Steve bboyminn wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/157007>:

<< If you take the approach that time happened only once, but Harry
and Hermione happened twice, it gets much easier. If you view it
right, JKR's account of time travel is as reasonable and consistent as
is possible for time travel. >>

Yes, but it is just as inconsistent with Free Will as unbreakable
Prophecies are, and without Free Will, what is the point of nattering
on and on about choices?

Just Carol wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/157114>:

<< Why didn't she die like the other snakes when he possessed her, >>

I figure that, being *much* larger than the other snakes, she could
survive possession *much* longer. And since Voldemort cared about
Nagini, he was careful to end his possessions of  her before she was
harmed.

<< and why does she stay around him like a pet? >>

I suppose if Potterverse snakes are actually capable of forming and
expressing complicated thoughts (also mentioned by Jordan/Random in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/157195>) like 'I
want to go to my natural habitat in Brazil' and 'There is an old man
listening at the door', they are also capable of forming complicated
Pavlovian conditioning, like 'This man feeds me and rewards me, so I
will remain with him and do the stuff he rewards me for." I can't
imagine RL snakes having such complicated mental or emotional activity
-- does anyone want to weigh in on whether their RL pet snake can tell
one human from another, or even male humans in general from female
humans in general?

There was once some speculation that she was an Animagus who got stuck
in snake form. A witch *that* devoted to LV -- surely Bellatrix helped
her get stuck! A dish of irony for Bella: LV likes Nagini better this way.