Is Lupin a Legilimens? Spell vs Skill

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 157310

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:

Mike:
Likewise, sorry to snip an excellent response to an excellent post. 
I also questioned Snape's true motives in those occlumency lessons, 
different thread, same topic, wynnleaf's 2nd installation:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/157301

if anyone is interested.

> bboyminn:
> <snip> 
> I do see one flaw in both Dumbledore and Lupin's 
> thinking though. While Snape may be a far superior 
> Legilimens/Occlumens, Lupin is an infinitely more effective 
> teacher. I think Snape used the worst possible teaching 
> method in teaching Harry, and that lead to the overal 
> failure of the effort. If Lupin had taught Harry, Harry's 
> skill might not have been perfect, but he would have been 
> able to function to some degree. As it is, though Harry 
> is actually capable of doing it, he sees the Occulmency 
> classes and his efforts as a failure, and so he has written 
> that skill off as a lost cause. Yet, we see that the skill 
> is actually there, but Snape made the circumstances such 
> that it was impossible to nuture and enhance that skill. 
> I think Harry's belief that he can't do Occumency is the
> major obstical to his being able to do it. He believes 
> he is a failure, and so he is.
> <snip>

Mike:
Could you expand on Harry being able to do Occlumency? See I've 
resigned myself to believing, like Harry does, that he can't do it 
because he can't rein in his emotions. Have I been duped by that 
*unreliable narrator* again?


> bboyminn again:
> 
> We have actually seen Legilimens in TWO distinct forms. One 
> form that could be used by just about any magical person 
> regardless of skill level, and another that is very much 
> tied to personal skill. 
> 
> There is the Legilimens SPELL which is quite different and 
> unique and separate from the SKILL of Legilimens. When 
> people discuss this subject they tend to merge those two 
> separate and only slightly related things into one entity.
> <snip> 
> I suspect there is probably a companion Occlumency Spell 
> to block access to memories, but it is as crude and obvious 
> as the Legilimens Spell; again, not very stealthy or subtle.
> <snip>

Mike again:
Excellent point!!! It almost pains me to snip any of it.
Permit me to add one thing; People keep confusing the two related 
but seperate skills. And while they are related, it seems entirely 
possible that one could be "superb" at one while being only passable 
at the other. For instance, I envision Snape is an excellent 
Occlumens but only a good Legilimens. Conversely, I picture LV as 
the greatest Legilimens but only above average Occlumens. Why would 
he worry about someone probing his mind, he could detect the intent 
before the prober got started, and stop him/her in a very painful 
way!!

Once again, excellent post!!!

Mike