Splitting the Soul (was: Voldemort killed personally)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 157390

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip> 
> > Honestly, I think it'd be a bit odd if JKR suggested that *only* 
> > a magical murder splits the soul.  That would suggest that if    
> > young Tom had taken an axe to his estranged family his soul      
> > would be just fine, thank you very much.  I don't think JKR is   
> > going in that sort of "off on a technicality" direction.

> >>Mike responds:
> Ouch! I wasn't thinking that graphically. And I think you are 
> reading too much into my post. Did Lizzy Borden get a tarnished   
> soul from her escapade? I suppose so. Would a wizard get a         
> tarnished soul from doing the same? I would say, yes. By NO means 
> would I suggest that JKR wouldn't find non-magical murder          
> reprehensible. And I don't think I was even coming close to       
> suggesting that. 

Betsy Hp:
I wasn't suggesting that that was what you were suggesting. (Say 
that five times fast. <g>)  I was saying that I think you're over 
complicating things.  Slughorn tells us "murder splits the soul" (to 
paraphrase).  He doesn't quantify the *type* of murder.  So why 
should we?

> >>Mike:
> But, I'm postulating on what the requirements are to perform *Dark 
> Magic* in a *magical* universe, not making moral judgements on 
> degrees of barbarity.

Betsy Hp:
Right.  The dark magic is the bit where you seperate that ripped bit 
of soul from yourself and stick it somewhere else.  I don't see 
where it's suggested that the rip itself needs dark magic (or magic, 
period) to happen.  The only requirement is murder.

> >>Mike:
> We are discussing a magical concept: splitting the soul.

Betsy Hp:
I guess I don't recall the text that states splitting the soul is a 
magical act.

> >>Mike:
> Specifically, splitting the soul for the purpose of making a      
> horcrux. And when it comes to magical requirements, I do think JKR 
> is specific, or as you said "off on a technicality".  
> "Swish and flick", "Concentrating hard on your happy memory?", 
> "Arvada Kadevra's a curse that needs a powerful bit of magic      
> behind it.", "...you need to really want to cause pain - to enjoy 
> it", "No Unforgivable Curses from you, Potter!"; yeah, JKR         
> is "technical" when it comes to her brand of magic.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Ooh, I *totally* disagree.  Does it take magic to enjoy causing pain 
in others?  Does it take magic to use happy thoughts to fight 
depression?  That's exactly what I'm talking about.  JKR takes 
something we all are familiar with (sadism, depression) and turns it 
up a notch with magic.  But at its core, sadism and depression are 
not something only wizards can experience.  And I'd imagine that 
murdering someone can rip at your soul.

(Honestly, I think the really dark part of the horcrux is that it 
prevents healing.  Just as Crucio encourages sadism and Dementors 
trap you in depression.)
 
> >>Betsy Hp: 
> > <snip> 
> > So, murder hurts the murderer's soul.  But only a wizard can    
> > make dark use of that injury.

> >>Mike:
> I don't disagree, murder does *hurt* the soul, and it does appear 
> that "tarnishing" ones soul has it's own consequences. But it     
> takes magic to "split" the soul. Dumbledore said Harry's soul is   
> "untarnished and whole", not just untarnished and not just whole.

Betsy Hp:
But Dumbledore doesn't say Harry's soul is untarnished because he 
hasn't murdered.  I don't think anyone says "murder tarnishes your 
soul".  But they *do* say "murder splits your soul".  I think it's 
safe to take JKR at her word here.

Betsy Hp