Which Dumbledore ?

[abergoat]

No: HPFGUIDX 157455

Tonks_op wrote:
> As to the barman. I hate to put a damper on such an interesting idea 
> as Aberforth currently being a goat, but the quote by Sirius implies 
> that the bar man is currently the same one as 20 years ago. So 
> unless the bartender is a goat, I think that Aberforth was not 
> transformed.

Abergoat writes:
Ah, but we are in a pickle because I agree that Sirius states (I'll go
with something stronger than implies) that Mundungus needs to wear an
invisibility cloak or a dress to hide from the barman that banned him
because of the barman's long memory. But here is the pickle: This
statement doesn't fit with Mundungus talking with the same barman in
the street not in disguise. 

Did the barman give up the 20 year ban? Sure it can be said that it
was all for show, but I think that is rather weak - why wouldn't
Sirius have known? Twenty years is a long time to keep up an act and
Sirius was a member of both Orders. The street is a public place - why
risk 20 years of subterfuge? Why not wear a disguise just in case?
Still stranger, Sirius has MET Aberforth but avoids talking about
Albus's brother when he talks about this ban - very odd, but we've
seen Sirius do this type of thing before. Think Belletrix.

Sirius is artful at dodging uncomfortable truths, Belletrix is the
perfect example. Sirius made a reference in GoF to the 'Lestrange
couple' becoming Death Eaters. He chose to overlook the inconvenient
fact that the female member of said couple was Sirius's own cousin and
Harry didn't know that. Albus's brother as a goat would be an
uncomfortable truth, one that people might delicately avoid
discussing. Because everyone thinks it is Aberforth's fault, not
Voldemort's (Albus excepted).

I think Sirius's words are a deliberate clue that the HBP barman not
the same barman that banned Mundungus. Sirius's words fit the goat
theory better, Mundungus is still hiding from a barman with a long
memory...who just happens to be a goat and lives at the Hog's Head
bar. And Sirius knows this. Mundungus isn't hiding from a goat, he is
hiding from a man trapped in goat form so Sirius is truthful saying
that Mundungus is hiding from a barman, if the theory is true... From
the smell we can guess goats have the run of the place - or at least
one particular goat does. So when Mundungus is OUTSIDE the bar he
doesn't need a disguise, explaining lack of desguise during the street
meeting perfectly.

Tonks_op wrote:
> Another reason for this is that the barman only caught the 
> eavesdropper.  The eavesdropper was there and heard far more than 
> the barman did. 

Abergoat asks:
Do we know that? The only reason we know that Aberforth (and yes, I
think that barman was Aberforth) was there is because of Trelawney -
and she saw both Snape and Aberforth. For all we know they arrived
together and the bickering started because of what they overheard. I
suspect that Aberforth heard as much of the prophecy as Snape did (for
another theory on the reason Snape told Voldemort the prophecy) but it
isn't necessary here. Even if Aberforth heard nothing I still think
Voldemort would want to legilimens him because he was there when the
prophecy ended and visually saw the participants.

Tonks_op wrote:
> It would make sense for LV to assume that Snape 
> heard all that could be heard and that the barman only caught him 
> with his ear to the door.  This doesn't imply that the barman heard 
> anything.  So I don't see any reason for LV to come after the barman 
> at all.

Abergoat asks:
But why wouldn't Voldemort want confirmation of Snape's story?
Voldemort is a careful man. If he really did think the prophecy was
important I imagine he wanted all the information he could get even if
it was only to verify what Snape heard or the conditions under which
Snape heard it.  We even see this with Wormtail at Spinner's End.
Voldemort is most likely 'checking' the loyalty of someone that is
supposedly loyal. Voldemort trusts no one. I'm sure he would have
wanted to make sure Aberforth's story matched with Snape's even if it
was just how Dumbledore and Trelawney looked at the end.

Tonks_op wrote:
> I am sure that Albus Dumbledore was the man on the tower. And he is 
> really dead. 

Abergoat writes:
Sadly, I have to confess to highjacking some other poster's topic. I
believe Albus Dumbledore died on the tower (or at the very least when
he hit the ground). But the whole goat theory owes its origins to
someone else's speculation that Fawkes is Aberforth. I didn't buy that
either but it made me think about other possibilities and the goat
idea came out of it. I'm just thrilled about how the 'goat theory'
tidies up Aberforth's story.

Sorry for the long post - normally people ignore the goat idea so I'm
taking advantage... ;)

Abergoat