ACID POPS and Teenager Draco

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 157502

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Magpie" <belviso at ...> wrote:

Mike:
Let me clarify my position. I am in agreement with Magpie, Sydney, 
Betsy, (I know there's more) that Draco's story is a coming-of-age 
plot first and foremost, along with a side order of betrayal. That 
betrayal coming from Lucius as Magpie pointed out so eloquently up 
thread. 

But I also see Draco as acting OOC compared to his story arc in the 
first five books. IMO, he was presented to us as a manipulator, 
plotter and planner, coercer (is that a word?) and the set-up guy. 
The false duel challenge, the Hippogriff injury ploy, the 'I'd want 
to get revenge myself' pep talk, the "Potter Stinks" badges and 
passing stories to Rita, all point to a manipulator trying to hone 
those type of skills. Now, all of a sudden, he's the cabinet repair 
guy, that won't even accept offered help much less manipulate others 
into doing at least some of the dirty work. Besides two weak and ill 
planned murder attempts, the whole the year is spent trying to fix a 
cabinet, by himself. What happened to those other attributes he 
seemed to be cultivating through five books? 

> 
> Magpie:
> The books are full of explicit romantic and sexual relationships. 
> If we're supposed to see Snape and Narcissa having an affair in 
> that scene I think JKR would have written something other than 
> just a vague sense of sexual tension in the narrative 
> description.  A line, a slip of the tongue--anything explicit.    
> Something a young audience could understand.
 
Mike:
Like I said, I'm not a Shipper. But I have only seen teenage or 
adolescent love in the first five books. And I saw no *sexual* 
relationships and certainly not explicit. This sounds like you 
reading into canon what isn't there. The first *adult* relationship 
I saw was there in HBP Ch. 2, and I didn't see Narcissa simply 
pleading with a family friend.

  
> Magpie:
> <snip>
> But the stuff that's supposed to be so obviously sexual actually
> fits just as well with what we're told is going on in the scene--a 
> desperate woman trying to save her only child going to a man who's 
> emotionally involved with all of them but also must play the role 
> of cold Death Eater. <break>

Mike:
I saw her using everything at her disposal, including a bit 
of 'implied' sexual coercion. Am I saying they are having an affair 
at this point? NO, but Narcissa is being coercively feminine as well 
as being obviously distraught. If you don't see it that way then 
we'll have to agree to disagree. Correct me if I'm wrong (yeah, like 
I need to make that request :)) isn't Spinner's End the first time 
we get dialogue from Narcissa?

>
> Magpie cont.:
> I can't count how many times scenes in canon or the movies have 
> been described to me as being "obviously" shippy, with no other 
> explanation for them than shippiness, when they were, imo, 
> nothing of the kind.

Mike:
Hey Magpie,are you an anti-shipper like me?

>
> Magpie:
> Yes, though [Harry] himself has gone through times when he hid 
> things from others--in OotP, for instance, he hid the idea that he 
> was possessed by Voldemort at first.  It's not Draco's character   
> being different from Harry's that makes him isolated (you and Neri 
> are both pointing out that Draco usually goes to others for
> help), it's the situation.  Sydney has explained this in more 
> detail, <snip>

Mike:
Yeah, I agree with Sydney's synopsis for the most part. My point is 
that the character comparison was a literary device used by JKR. She 
chose to make Draco act isolated for that purpose. And, up until HBP 
hasn't Draco always got help, one way or the other, from others? So 
Draco is acting OOC. And I believe I said this is where I agreed 
with Neri at the beginning of my post. Why is Draco the character 
OOC? Well, probably for the reasons you and Sydney have given. But 
my point was that JKR wanted us to see the parallels between Harry 
and Draco and how they handle similar situations.

What makes you say Harry hid the possession, even at first? I don't 
recall it even coming up after the MoM if that's when you're talking 
about. Harry was all wrapped up in Sirius' death. If your talking 
about the Snake attacking Arthur sequence, all the kids heard the 
possession theory at the same time on the extendable ears. Plus, 
Harry went to Sirius with his concerns as soon as he could get 
Sirius alone. I don't see Harry hiding anything regarding the 
possession. He did isolate himself when he thought he was the 
weapon, but he wasn't hiding anything, he thought he was 
*protecting* everyone. Is there something I missed?

>
> Magpie:
> That's your reasoned view of the situation but canonically it 
> doesn't seem to be Draco's.  To him everything is wrapped up  
> together. <break>

Mike:
Right, and up til now, Draco was shown to be smarter than that.

> Magpie cont.:
> And to be honest, I think it makes sense that Draco is more 
> secretive about the cabinets than anything else. That really is 
> the thing that he brings to the table and I can see why he  
> [doesn't want] to hand that over to Snape least of all. It's the 
> thing he thinks he actually can do and does. Ultimately I think 
> most of the decisions Draco made in HBP will be for the best.
 
Mike:
A cabinet repair guy is what he brings to the table? A job it took 
him all year to accomplish alone, one he thought he was destined to 
fail at? When he had someone willing to help who could probably be 
of great help? OK, I think it was irrational reasoning, but I can 
see where you're coming from. But it just begs the question: Did he 
think this whole plot through at all? Why was he repairing the 
cabinet, how would that help him to kill DD? He made those two 
feeble attempts to kill DD, but what if by some miracle one of them 
worked? Would he still have continued to repair the cabinet? 

This is why, IMO, that Draco is OOC. In the past he would not only 
have seeked help from trusted confidants, he would have asked 
himself the question, why am I doing this? You say, iirc, that he 
thought he was bringing in backup. Draco, on the tower, only told DD 
that there were DEs in the school. 

But if he thought he needed backup, why not enlist Snape? Because he 
thought Snape would step in front of him and kill DD before he got 
the chance? That's the way he presented it to DD. But if that's the 
case, why wasn't he concerned that one of the other DEs wouldn't do 
the same? He didn't seem to even know who was coming, much less 
whether one of them would try to "steal his glory". At least a Snape 
that he believed to be on his side and a friend of the family and a 
mentor to him would be easier to predict. What gave Draco the idea 
that Snape would stab him in the back? Moreover, why would he trust 
strangers over Snape?

*This* is the plot point, regarding Draco's motivation, that I'm 
hung up on. How will this affect Draco's actions in book 7? Could 
his mistrust of Snape and fear of LV's reprisals help drive him back 
to the *good* side? And all those ships can leave port and sink out 
at sea for all I care.


Mike
P.S. Magpie, I insterted words in [brackets] where it looked like 
you dropped them. I hope you don't mind, they looked like typos to 
me, I just wanted to make sure your meaning was clear. :-)