Bigotry or NOT? Re: CHAPDISC:HBP19,Elf Tails

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 157583


> Mike:
> So it's not the term "Squib" per se that caused you to call it 
> bigotry, it was in the context of putting Filch "in his place". 
You 
> don't see Hagrid as responding in kind to Filch's comment of "And 
> what difference does that make?". 

Magpie:
Yes, I do see Hagrid responding to Filch's comment of "And what 
difference does that make?" 

Mike:
Does that mean that it wouldn't 
> matter what derogatory term Hagrid used, as long as it was used 
> to "put him in his place" it would constitute bigotry? Is that 
what 
> you're saying, or did I misinterpret again?

Magpie:
It does matter what derogatory term Hagrid used.  If Hagrid had just 
said, "I'm a ruddy teacher!" Hagrid would be saying, "I'm a teacher 
and thus have the authority to keep kids out of bounds without 
bringing up any kind of prejudice.  

> Mike:
> So after Filch obnoxiously displays his disrespect for Hagrid's 
> position as a teacher, Hagrid isn't supposed to respond that he 
was 
> a "ruddy teacher", or just wasn't supposed to add that "sneakin' 
> Squib" part? The fact that Hagrid *is* in a position of authority 
in 
> the school, above Filch's position presumably, means that he 
> shouldn't react when Filch acts like that means *nothing*. 

Magpie:
He just wasn't supposed to add teh "sneakin' Squib" part.  I 
honestly don't understand why this is a radical concept.  It's not 
like Hagrid *must* bring up Filch being a member of this minority or 
else be disrespected. 


Mike:
> Filch needed to be put in his place in as much as Filch was 
> disregarding Hagrid's position as a teacher. And calling this 
> asserting dominance is grossly exagerating Hagrid's intent to 
> respond in kind. Besides which, you are overlooking that fact that 
> Filch was wrong. He started the confrontation under a false 
pretext 
> and escalated it with a demeaning response towards Hagrid.

Magpie:
I have not overlooked that Filch was wrong at all!  Of course I 
understand that Hagrid's authority has been questioned and that that 
is what is response is doing.  "I'm a ruddy teacher!" puts Filch in 
his place--or more correctly, it reminds Filch of Hagrid's place, 
which gives him the authority to have the kids out of bounds.  
Calling Filch a Squib doesn't relate to Filch or Hagrid's job 
authority one way or the other. It refers to Filch's general 
inferiority in society due to his being born without the ability to 
do magic. 

Mike:> 
> Hagrid doesn't like Filch personally. He made that clear in the 
> first book. It has nothing to do with Filch being a Squib, and 
> everything to do with the way Filch has treated Hagrid. And this 
> scene shows that Filch hasn't changed his approach to Hagrid one 
> bit. Reading bigotry into Hagrid's response is gratuitous and 
> unresponsive to the situation at hand.

Magpie:
And that's exactly what I said I found disturbing about so many 
discussions about these books, how they're credited with being so 
sensitive about prejudice and yet it seems to always come down 
to, "If you don't hate someone exclusively *because* they're a 
member of whatever group they're a member of, it's not racism, even 
if you express your dislike of an individual by bringing up his 
being a member of that group." Forgiving Hagrid for the slip is one 
thing, but defending this kind of name-calling vehemently seems to 
go exactly against what the books are claiming to champion.  I can 
see exactly why Draco lashes out against Hermione in CoS and it's 
not because she's Muggleborn. Doesn't make his way of expressing it 
any less bigotry to me. Plenty of bigots get along just fine with 
people in minority groups while they consider them well-behaved.

> Mike:
> To wave the prejudice flag you need much, much more than 
superficial 
> name calling else you are doing a disservice to a true condition 
of 
> malicious prejudice.

Magpie:
And to me that's just a bizarre thing to say. Name-calling where you 
zero in on someone's minority group is just superficial and can't be 
related to prejudice?  I would have thought it was one of the more 
obvious flags that someone's got some issues with bigotry.  If I get 
angry at a Jewish person because that person calls me stupid, and I 
express it by calling that person a dirty Jew, I doubt he would 
think he needed more to feel he was on the receiving end of some 
bigotry. 

-m