Bigotry or NOT? / ACID POPS and Teenager Draco - Motivation? LONG

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 157595

> Magpie:
> And I continue to be amazed that apparently calling somebody a 
dirty 
> Jew isn't the kind of name-calling that depends on prejudice.  How 
> can you put someone down by identifying them as part of a minority 
> group unless the minority group is understood to be a bad thing to 
> be?  

Alla:

Eh,**no**, that is not what I am saying. If you ( not you a 
generic "you") call me a **dirty jew**, you will make me very angry, 
but if you call me a Jew, even if you make it in the context of the 
heated exchange, I am not sure I will be thinking of you as 
antisemite, because this is who I am if that makes sense.

I am just saying that this is the question of the degree for me. IMO 
Hagrid makes an insult by adding the adjective, **but** the way I 
read this insult is the same way if Hagrid would have said "you, 
sneaking or ruddy Filch** . Does that make sense?

 
> Alla:> 
> > What I don't buy is Hagrid being prejudicial towards Squibs. I 
see 
> > zero proof in canon that Squib is used as slur, that is all.
> 
> Magpie:
> Merope is called a Squib by her father to indicate his disgust with 
> her.  Squibs don't live up to their wizarding bloodline.  

Alla:

Actually, yes I buy that. That is convincing example, I would still 
not put what Hagrid did at the same level though.
 
> Magpie:
> Anybody can lie, but there's no reason given in canon that they 
> should be lying, and the idea that they're lying creates even more 
> questions that undercut the story.  These three are the people 
> involved in the story, so they're the ones in position to know and 
> talk about it.  If they're lying Narcissa's no longer a distraught 
> mother getting a UV from a mysterious man with his own reasons for 
> agreeing to put his life on the line for her son.  Instead she's 
> either manipulating Snape for complicated reasons of her own or 
> Snape is manipulating her into getting him to take a suicidal 
pact.  
> It takes out the kind of situations that HP runs on and replaces it 
> with something that in an lj poll would be the ticky-box marked 
> [other--I will explain in comments].

Alla:

Just one point on this one, and I will agree to disagree because we 
are not going to convince each other here. To me there is **plenty** 
of reason in canon as to why everything that was said could be a lie, 
starting from the name of the chapter and ending with the argument 
that three people or four people in the room are not exactly most 
trusting towards each other.

> Sydney:
> 
> But... Lupin DOES call himself a werewolf.  I only have HBP with me 
at
> the moment, but in that book he says, "I've been living among  my
> fellows, my equals.  Werewolves." He IS a werewolf.  There isn't
> another word in canon that's a euphemism for it.  There is no
> difference between what Ron said and what Hagrid said.  

Alla:

Well, in your opinion there is no difference, in my opinion Lupins 
ounds quite bitter when he calls himself a werewolf and Arabella does 
not.


Sydney:
> Nobody likes thinking ill of their favorite people, but shouldn't we
> be able to acknowledge their flaws and still love them?  Is Hagrid
> only lovable and good if he's perfect?

Alla:

How did I know that this argument this come up eventually? No, liking 
Hagrid or disliking Hagrid has nothing to do with me thinking that by 
calling Filch a Squib Hagrid is not quite in the league of bigots.

In fact, you are free to believe or disbelieve me, but I really am 
not into Hagrid that much. I mean I don't hate him of course, but he 
is a bit too plain vanilla for my tastes. If he dies in book 7, I 
think that if I be upset that would be mostly for poor Harry, who 
will be left without his first adult friend.

I love Ron for example much much more than I like Hagrid, and in my 
post upthread I called his remark to Remus a bigoted one.

That's just me honestly not seeing what you are seeing. 

Oh, and I can give you an example where I *do* see Hagrid being 
prejudiced - in his remark about Slytherins. I mean, not that I can 
blame him much, but I guess we are supposed to see that good 
Slytherins do exist .... somewhere. But yes, that I can see as 
prejudice.
Does that answer your question?

JMO,

Alla.