The Snape/Harry Relationship (was:Re: ACID POPS and Teenager Draco...)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 157602

> >>Alla:
> > Neri, I would LOVE for you to be right, I think it is a great 
> > possibility that Snape and Harry relationship is not a central 
> > enough relationship to the story, but I am afraid that I have to 
> > say that IMO it is one of the central relationships. 

> >>Neri:
> I fear we might be falling into semantics here. Is the Snape-Harry
> relationship *the* central relationship in the series or just *one 
> of* the central relationships?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I'll go out on a limb (I think it's a pretty sturdy one <bg>) and 
say the Snape/Harry relationship is *the* central relationship of 
the books.  There is nothing about Snape's story that *doesn't* 
involve Harry.  That is not true of any other character in the 
books, I belive.  And actually, I think that's why Snape gets so 
much thread time, and why Snape is either loved or hated in a way 
Voldemort just isn't.

> >>Neri:
> So, in what sense did the Snape-Harry relationship developed from 
> the beginning of the series? What did it contribute to the        
> development of Harry's character? Well, there is certainly some    
> development: in the beginning of the series Harry hated Snape, and 
> now he REALLY REALLY hates Snape.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Hmm, but that's not how it really happened is it?  Harry hates Snape 
because Snape first hated him.  That was one of the big mysteries: 
*why* does Snape have it in for Harry?  It was all very personal, 
and it's only become more so.  (Isn't it interesting that just about 
everything we learn about Snape always loops back to Harry? Not so 
with any other character.)

> >>Neri:
> Well, there's this scenario that the Snape fans dream about since 
> Book 1: that Harry and Snape will be forced to work together as a 
> team and cooperate in achieving their common goal. That they will 
> learn to appreciate each other, each gradually realizing what a   
> great guy the other man actually is. Finally they will forgive    
> each other for everything and shake hands (with Hermione giving    
> them both a big hug and running out of the room positively        
> howling). There's only one problem with this scenario – this kind 
> of literary relationship development takes time and careful       
> building by the Author if she means to do it right and make it     
> convincing.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Well, it takes time for an author to show that the *outcome* of the 
relationship will be important.  But JKR has already done that with 
Snape and Harry.  She's shown that there's something personal going 
on there from the moment Snape looked at Harry and Harry's scar 
hurt.  And JKR has carefully added to that beginning with every 
single book, culminating (IMO) with Harry's instant connection with 
and understanding of Prince!Snape.  (There's a reason Harry hoped 
the Prince might be his father.)

But as for the "learn to appreciate each other" moment...  That's 
usually the climax of the story, right?  Elizabeth doesn't realize 
Darcy is perfect for her until the climax of Pride and Prejudice.  
Leah doesn't tell Han she loves him until the climax of Empire 
Strikes Back. (The fizzling of the Leah/Han story in RotJ shows that 
there's a reason most stories end at that "omg, I *do* love him!" 
moment, IMO.) Danny Glover doesn't realize that Mel Gibson is a 
great partner until the climax of Lethal Weapon.

So actually, I think JKR is right on target for the final realizing 
of the Snape/Harry relationship in Book 7.  Whether it's "Snape 
really *is* a good guy!" or whether it's "Snape really *is* the bad 
guy!".

> >>Neri:
> So in what sense is Snape *really* central in the HP series? He's 
> not a central character in the sense of HRH...

Betsy Hp:
I'd actually argue that Harry will learn more about himself by 
getting an understanding of Snape than he would (or will) by getting 
an understanding of either Ron or Hermione.  Ron and Hermione are 
Harry's best *friends*, but their stories are not so tightly tied to 
Harry's.  And actually, their romantic exploits in HBP show them 
pulling *away* from Harry (as Harry himself recognizes) and going 
their own way.  This while Harry is getting a deeper understanding 
of Snape (through his potions book), an understanding or connection 
only Harry feels.

> >>Neri:
> ...and the feelings between him and Harry, while very violent and 
> of huge importance to the plot, hardly amount to a relationship in 
> the deep literary sense.

Betsy Hp:
Again, I completely disagree.  There are so many ways Harry and 
Snape mirror each other.  I'd actually describe their relationship 
*as* literary.

> >>Neri:
> But Snape is most definitely a central *mystery* of the HP series. 
> Isn't this why we are all obsessed about him? Isn't this why we   
> discuss him all the time here? Isn't this why the whole fandom is 
> crazy about him? He is so mysterious, so elusive, so full of      
> contradictions. We simply must uncover his motivations, his       
> loyalties, his backstory, his love affairs, what makes him tick.
> And this is also the way JKR treats Snape. In each and every book 
> we expect JKR to give us some significant development in Snape's
> character, and she never really does.

Betsy Hp:
Oh no, no, no.  We almost always learn *something* new about Snape 
(not sure about CoS) in every single book.  And each new piece of 
information ties back to Harry.  Sure, it doesn't do much to deepen 
Snape as a character in his own right, but it always seems to dial 
his interactions with Harry up a notch.

> >>Neri:
> In each and every book we expect her to develop his "relationship" 
> with Harry, and except for further raising of the tension nothing 
> really develops.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
"Raising the tension" *is* developing the relationship.  (You, um, 
actually use an action word to try and explain that action isn't 
taking place. <g>  I just found that a bit funny, but in an entirely 
non-hateful way.)  I think you're saying that there hasn't been a 
*climax* to the Snape/Harry relationship (as there's been with Fake!
Moody, Krum, Cedric, Umbridge, etc.) but that's because the 
Snape/Harry relationship will be (I suspect) the climax of the whole 
darn series.  

> >>Neri:
> So it seems quite obvious to me: Snape is, first and foremost, a   
> *central mystery* of the HP series. And therefore the resolution   
> of the Snape plot will be, first and foremost, the solution of the 
> mystery. It doesn't have to be about relationships.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
But again, the mystery has ties back to Harry, ever and always.  
That's why it *is* about relationships.  In the end I think by 
understanding Snape, seeing him clearly and without mystery, Harry 
will fully understand himself.

Betsy Hp