Bigotry or NOT?

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 157610

> >>Mike:
> And I continue to be amazed that people equate Hagrid calling     
> Filch a "sneakin' Squib" to someone using the bigoted slur "dirty 
> Jew". Furthermore, calling someone a "Jew" is not equal to calling 
> someone "Jewish". But calling someone a "Squib" is the same as 
> calling someone a "Squib". Do you get it now? 

Betsy Hp:
No, because I've never seen (or heard of, quite frankly) calling 
someone a Jew as bigoted in and of itself.  It's a descriptive 
word.  "He's a Jew, she's a Catholic, he's a Muggle, she's a 
Squib."  So, yeah, neutral.  Like saying, "He's a Mexican."

Filch is a Squib, he's can be described as such (by others and 
himself), just as Mrs. Figg can be described as such (by others and 
herself).  However, you make it an insult, and suddenly that 
neutrality isn't there anymore.  "Dirty Jew; greedy Catholic; stupid 
Muggle, sneaky Squib."  The descriptive words are tied to an insult 
now.  You're not just dirty, you're a dirty *Jew* (a dirty non-Jew 
is better somehow is the suggestion).  Filch isn't just a sneak, 
he's a sneaky *Squib*.  And that is somehow worse.

You call someone lazy -- that's an insult.  You call them a lazy 
*Mexican*, and now it's a hell of lot more political.  It's the 
suggestion that Mexicans are somehow more lazy than, say, Germans.  
Otherwise, why bother adding in that otherwise neutral discriptive 
word?

> >>Mike:
> <snip>
> How many members of a minority refer to themselves in a derogatory 
> fashion when they're not trying to draw attention to the prejudice 
> of that term? If "Squib" was only used by Filch, I wouldn't be     
> sure. But how Figgy used it, when she used it, I was convinced     
> that "Squib" was not a bigoted slur.
> Conversely, my adversaries in this argument are convinced that it 
> was a bigoted slur.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Hmm, I haven't seen that actually.  I don't recall anyone saying 
calling someone a Squib, in and of itself, is a bigoted slur.  
Calling someone a *sneaky* Squib turns it into a slur. Because it's 
used in the context of an insult, it turns the word Squib into an 
insult.

(Though, honestly you can do a lot with tone.  If your tone suggests 
calling someone a Squib is insulting then the word becomes a slur.  
Part of it has a lot to do with the lesser status the entire WW puts 
Squibs into.  Flich is embarrassed to call himself a Squib.  There's 
a question about Mrs. Figg being allowed to play the part of witness 
in Harry's trial because she's a Squib.  Neville's experience puts a 
dark shadow of infanticide over the whole thing.)

> >>Mike:
> I *have* asked you to explain how you justify your claim that the 
> term "Squib" is bigoted in the face of the canon evidence to the   
> contrary. You have declined. Referencing one's minority status is 
> all you need to proclaim bigotry and you see no need to explain    
> yourself further.

Betsy Hp:
Again, it's not *just* referencing someone's minority status.  It's 
defining that minority status as something insulting to point out.  
The way Hagrid uses the word Squib *in that scene* turns it into an 
insult.  If he'd said "you sneaky Janitor" he'd have been expressing 
a certain amount of classism, suggesting that being a janitor is a 
bad thing.  He's saying that Flich isn't just sneaky, he's a sneaky 
*Squib*.  Just as if you call someone a lazy Mexican, folks around 
you will assume that you see something insulting or bad in being a 
Mexican.  Otherwise, why point out that the lazy person is Mexican?

> >>Mike:
> <snip>
> If you are going to put someone into a position of defending      
> themself against the charge of bigotry, you better have a damn    
> good reason for levelling that charge. Defending oneself against a 
> bigotry accusation is akin to trying to prove a negative. 
> Like I said before, pronouncing bigotry at the drop of the hat 
> trivializes those situations that are truly serious bigotry.
> I'm done. I'll read any responses, but I'm getting too worked up 
> over this topic. If you can't tell by now, I've had personal 
> experiences in this area, and it brings back memories. I'll leave 
> it at that

Betsy Hp:
This is a hot button issue for you, I totally understand that.  But 
I think that rather than saying Hagrid is a bigot who hates Squibs, 
most people are pointing out that the prejudice against Squibs is 
endemic to the WW.  Neville is ashamed and scared about being a 
Squib (his family is horrified).  Filch is obviously mortified at 
being recognized as a Squib.  Mrs. Figg is one of Dumbledore's 
outcasts.  

Wizards look down on anyone not a wizard.  And Hagrid, brought up in 
that world, doesn't question it.  I don't think he'd dislike someone 
*just* because they're a Squib, but he certainly sees the fact of 
being a Squib as something that can be used as an insult.  That's 
how wizards think.  No one is saying Hagrid is evil, but they are 
saying that using the fact that Filch is a Squib to insult him is 
not a good thing.  It makes an impression that I'm not sure Hagrid 
really wants to make.

Betsy Hp