Freedom for House-Elves (Was: Kreacher the Plot Device Elf)

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 162239

> >a_svirn:
> > Sure, he does. If we are told that fair is foul, we know that it's
> > anything but fair. If Dobby obeys by his own volition he doesn't
> > really obey at all. Obedience requires compulsion. 
> 
> Carol again:
> I hate resorting to definitions, but here goes:
> 
> obey
> transitive verb
> 1 : to follow the commands or guidance of
> 2 : to conform to or comply with <obey an order> <falling objects 
obey
> the laws of physics>
> intransitive verb : to behave obediently 

a_svirn:
I may be very slow indeed, but does not command mean compulsion? 
Dobby proclaims that he obey whoever he chooses, but NOT a person, 
force, agency etc that compels him to obey. This means that he does 
not obey at all. 

> Carol:
> Dobby *chooses* to follow the commands or guidance of Harry Potter. 
No
> one compelled him to do it. 

a_svirn:
No, he chooses to render Harry Potter services. Harry did not give 
him orders at first, he didn't even remember about him. He only 
thought about Kreacher. Later on he did say something like "You can 
sleep Dobby", but it was after Dobby made his choice, and doesn't 
Harry any credit, anyway. 

> Carol:
 That satisfaction from service
> well performed is Dobby's reward, the only reward he wants from 
Harry.

a_svirn:
Then why I ask again didn't he seek his employment with Harry? ? Why 
all that fuss about wanting paid employment, if he doesn't want to be 
paid? Doesn't make sense at all.

> Carol:
> I suppose it's possible to render services to your equal, but in 
most
> instances your equal could and would perform them for himself. You
> render services to someone in need who can't perform them for him or
> herself for whatever reason or for a superior who has some claim 
over
> you (authority or a paycheck). Even the equal has the claim of
> friendship and would expect favors in return if the need arose. But
> Dobby isn't offering his services to, or as, an equal. He is 
offering
> them to his chosen human, whom he chooses to obey, as he said 
himself.
> He neither asks nor expects services in return. Imagine the reaction
> if Harry offered to help Dobby with his elfly duties in the kitchen.
> Or "I'll make my own bed and wash my own laundry, Dobby. You don't
> need to do that." "But Dobby wishes to be of service to Harry 
Potter,
> sir. Please tell Dobby what else he can do to help Harry Potter, 
sir."

a_svirn:
Except, we don't see Dobby doing Harry's laundry. We see him trying 
to save Harry's life, helping Harry to solve the clue, or to unravel 
Draco's plot. The sort of thing that friends and equals might do. 


> a_svirn:
> >  His relationship with Harry is reciprocal. Harry bestowed a gift 
of
> freedom on Dobby, and Dobby wants to return the favour by only way 
he
> knows – render him services. 
> 
> Carol:
> Such an exchange is not reciprocal. Only a superior can offer 
freedom,
> and the offer of services is the offer to become his unpaid servant.

a_svirn:
Yes, that's true. I did say that Dobby tries to repay the favour in 
the only way he knows. That's again the question of indoctrination. 
Harry shouldn't have allowed him to do that. Instead he sized the 
opportunity, like with Kreacher. 

> > a_svirn:
> > They were well on the way on being equals in GOF and OOP. In the
> last book, Harry treats Dobby more like inferior. Hardly 
surprising, 
> considering he's become a slave owner and rather enjoys the 
experience. 
> 
> Carol:
> I see no evidence of equality in the other books. The offer to help 
is
> entirely on Dobby's side. Harry buys him socks (without perhaps
> realizing that they symbolize his release from bondage to Lucius
> Malfoy), but nowhere do I see him offering his services to Dobby.

a_svirn:
Harry didn't just "buy socks". First of all, it was Dobby who started 
the exchange of socks, which is symbolic, because an inferior don't 
take incentive in such matters – it's presumptuous. Second, Harry 
took trouble to buy socks that would specially please and amuse 
Dobby – something you do for friends. And it was a thank-you gift 
too. 
(And he must be an idiot not to see the symbolism.)


> Carol:
In
> HBP, Harry finally requests the services that Dobby has been 
offering

a_svirn:
Well he became a slave owner in HBP. He seems to think that he is 
entitled to it. That makes him regard even Dobby as an inferior.