Why are Dobby and Grawp so annoying? (Was: Freedom for House-Elves)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 162251

Alla, still trying to figure out why she finds Dobby annoying,
> because his speech patterns do not bother her that much.
>

Carol responds:

And here I thought that Steve had figured out the reason for your
reaction better than I had! Hmmm.

Alla:
Right, no, unfortunately he did not at all. Did not figure them out 
for me, I mean, because this is what I am trying to do right now ¡V 
figure out the reasons why I find Dobby so very annoying and what 
Steve said ( if I summarize correctly) that I sympathize with beings 
who fight for their plight more than those who are not, is not it. 
Because the POV  that I share that elves had been indoctrinated in 
not fighting ( for the most part) usually should have made me pity 
them even more.

Carol:
Leaving Snape out of it, since he's not a caricature and his speech
patterns aren't annoying and his loyalties are ambiguous, unlike
Dobby's or Grawp's (you think he's evil; I don't), let's look again at
Dobby and Grawp.

Alla:
Well, yes, that is what I would like to do too ¡V leave Snape out of 
it. I was just surprised about the analogy Pippin made, because I 
cannot see it even with magnifying glass. ļ
Carol:
 I think it's clear why Grawp is annoying; his
vocabulary and repertoire of actions are extremely limited. 
<SNIP>Okay, no reason to hate him, but no reason to empathize with 
him,
either. At best, most of us can take him or leave him. He slows the
story down.

Alla: 
Right, I suppose I will take the *slows the story down* argument as 
the one I most agree with.
Carol:
 We'd rather read about human characters whom we can relate
to and empathize with or be angry with because we disapprove of their
choices. <SNIP>

Alla:

Well, no I would rather read about better written character, I could 
care less whether character is human or not.
In Louis Bujold saga about Miles Vorkosigan for example  there are 
plenty fascinating non-human character.
So, as of today, I guess I just think that Grawp is not written well, 
contrary to Dobby.


 Carol:
<SNIP>
But you say that it isn't the speech patterns that annoy you, either
with their repetition or their servility, and that you don't find them
caricatured.

Alla:
Right, no, see being around people who struggle to learn foreign 
language and struggling with this language myself , hehe, I tend to 
be incredibly sympathetic towards house elves speech patterns. Who 
knows, maybe Dobby is just not very gifted with languages.
But as I said, I still find Dobby annoying, see below.

Carol:
<SNIP>
 And his idea of helping Harry is
to get him in trouble with the Dursleys and the MoM (the pudding
incident), to prevent him from taking the Hogwarts Express and
potentially injure both him and Ron in the process (solidifying the
barrier they're supposed to walk through), and setting a rogue Bludger
on him ("Not kill you, sir! Never kill you!" Could have fooled me, 
Dobby.)

Alla:

Ooooooo, I have to think about it, but that just may be it. Thank you.
Dobby is hurting Harry in CoS IMO, while he is trying to help him and 
I have no doubt that he is trying to help him, but I absolutely 
wanted to slap him as to his methods.
Yes, on intellectual level I realize his good intentions, but I still 
cannot stand his actions for the most part of the book, maybe that is 
where my annoyance stems from. I mean if Dobby at the end would have 
indeed helped Harry in some significant way, it would make me feel 
less annoyed with him, but while he wanted to help, he did not really 
do anything helpful, no?
So, yeah, that is probably the main reason.


Carol:
<SNIP>
 Does that help at all? I'm not expecting you to agree with my
characterization, just explaining why I find Dobby annoying and
wondering how my reaction to him compares with yours and that of
anyone else who wants to join this thread.

Alla:

It does help, see above, I think I may have found the main reason of 
my annoyance with Dobby.
As I said I could care less whether character is non-human or human 
and how he speaks, if character is written well and I do think that 
Dobby is written well, but his idiotic attempts to help Harry I think 
did it for me. 

JMO,
Alla