CHAPDISC: HBP26, The Cave

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 162348

zgirnius:
> 1)Dumbledore is described a `hampered' by his injured hand 
> during the climb down, and is described as swimming like a much 
> younger man, shortly thereafter. Thoughts?

Jen:  Hmm, I haven't thought much about it before, maybe this 
signifies that Dumbledore is still very spry when he enters the cave 
in contrast with how he exits?  Another thought springs to mind:  
This is the fulfillment of months searching for this particular 
Horcrux and Dumbledore finds reserves of energy to complete the quest.
 
> 2) In the antechamber as he seeks the hidden entrance, 
> Dumbledore murmurs in a strange tongue Harry does not understand. 
> Any ideas on this language and how Dumbledore came to know it? 

Jen: Given the mystery of how he is 'seeing' magic and touching magic 
around him, my guess is it's an ancient toungue and another instance 
of Dumbledore knowing and understanding magic at a deeper level than 
most wizards.  Harry mentions wondering if his 'shivers' are feeling 
enchantements and that might be an early awareness of what Dumbledore 
has perfected.
 
> 3)Dumbledore insists on using his own blood to open the hidden 
> archway, though Harry offers his own instead, because "your blood
> is worth more than mine." What does he mean by this?

Jen:  One short-term chapter answer and one longer series thought on 
this one.  1) Perhaps Voldemort has some way of knowing by the blood 
who exactly was in the cave.  He would expect DD to be there but not 
Harry and knowing that could cause him to collect his Horcruxes or 
move them.  Because once Dumbledore is dead there would be no threat 
in Voldemort's mind, he wouldn't expect him to share the Horcrux 
information with anyone because it's not something he himself would 
do.  I think by the time of the cave DD knows he is going to die 
sooner rather than later, the deck is finally stacked in a way he 
can't defeat, so he would rather use his own blood.  

2) Dumbledore knows something about blood that hasn't been revealed 
fully yet, imo.  (Well, I guess that's obvious with the gleam, right? 
<g>)  Right before that comment he mentions Voldemort presuming the 
shedding of blood 'weakens' a person and scoffs at that as much as 
Dumbledore ever scoffs at things.  LV does have this pattern and it's 
connected to his downfall: he 'shed' Lily's blood figuratively and 
look where that led him.  And then he ordered Harry's blood to be 
shed in the graveyard, once again presumably to his detriment.  So 
with those two instances, Harry's blood IS worth more in the fight 
against Voldemort, he and Lily and even Petunia have done more to 
defeat Voldemort than anyone else, even Dumbledore.

> 5) "Age is foolish and forgetful when it underestimates youth
" 
> Dumbledore says of Voldemort, as he explains the boat would only
> hold one adult wizard. Is there any special significance to these
> words?

Jen:  That Dumbledore and Voldemort have something in common and both 
make the same mistake?  Dumbledore's fate has been tied with 
Voldemort since the moment he met Tom Riddle.  He knows him more 
intimately than anyone else and has made it his business to 
understand the way he operates and Voldemort attempts to do the same 
with him.  And while they are polar opposites in the way they 
understand magic and the world, they are similar in their isolation 
and as leaders of their respective movements.  This is seen most 
clearly in the DOM, they are equal yet opposite.  It's inevitable 
they will make the same mistakes with different intentions for that 
reason.
 
> 6)  Is Dumbledore too quick to conclude the potion must be drunk? 
> Why or why not?

Jen:  I figured he knew pretty quickly what was called for.  JKR had 
better things to get on with and needed to speed that part up <g>.
 
> 7)  Is the potion a poison? Why or why not?

Jen:  One of the ingredients may be a slow-acting poison and DD is 
counting on getting back for Snape to save him in time.  The comment 
about the potion 'not killing immediately' indicates the probability 
of some agent that can kill eventually.
 
> 8)	What do Dumbledore's experiences drinking the potion tell us 
> about him? What is the meaning of his words and actions?

Jen: He does seem reckless to me, or different from the Dumbledore 
we've known in the past who was more cautious.  Whether he's dying 
from the ring Horcrux injury or knows the clock is ticking due to the 
UV and the fact that Voldemort is targeting him, I'm not sure.  He 
does seem obsessed with learning as much as possible about the 
Horcruxes and destroying as many as possible before he goes.


> 9)  Dumbledore warns Harry not to touch the water both as he gets 
> into the boat and as he disembarks. Why do you think he does this? 
AND
> 10)	What do you think about the fact that Harry *did* use the 
> water?  Do you believe the lake water had any effect on Dumbledore?

Jen:  He fears for Harry is my impression, not himself.  Don't know 
if the water is what ultimately killed Dumbledore in the end, but 
there's something wrong with it.  Once again he didn't give Harry 
enough information to make a real choice.  When the time came, Harry 
chose to fill the goblet with the water from the lake 
because "Voldemort planned it so'.  Of course, what other choice can 
Harry really make even if he had more information?  He thinks 
Dumbledore is dying and that's what Harry does best, try to save 
people.
  
> 12)	Dumbledore tells Harry, once they are walking along the 
> lakeshore, "The protection was
after all
well designed," and
> asserts one person could not have defeated it alone. What do you
> think he meant? How do you suppose the mysterious RAB managed to
> defeat the protection?

Jen:  I'm curious to hear other responses here.  The theory that 
Regulus and Kreacher made the journey together is my favorite theory 
so far, whether they did so to place the actual locket and therefore 
didn't have to go through all the protections, or if the combination 
of Regulus understanding dark magic and Kreacher's house-elf magic 
were able to defeat the protections.

> 13) Dumbledore's final words in the chapter are clearly a 
> passing of the torch, in retrospect, and mirror his words to Harry 
> in "Horace Slughorn," when he tells Harry he need not worry about 
> being attacked because "You are with me." Does Dumbledore know or 
> suspect what he will find back at Hogwarts? And, is Harry prepared 
> to take up the fight?

Jen: Wah, yes, it's so clear his end is coming.  Harry is ready, more 
ready than Dumbledore could ever be because once again, "Voldemort 
[made] it so" and because Harry will call on others to help unlike 
Dumbledore who does everything alone.

> 14)	Does the chapter title "The Cave" have any special 
> significance? Is its setting in a cave important? (Important events 
> at the ends of PS/SS, CoS, and PoA involve subterranean settings,
> as well).

Jen:  Good question.  With all the dead bodies it's like a tomb and 
is in marked contrast to the tallest tower Dumbledore dies on shortly 
after and his own above-ground tomb in the sunlight.  Not sure past 
that, though.

Thanks zgirnius, this is a great summary and questions (my favorite 
chapter of the series, too!)