The DDM or ESE Snape debate Continues!!(was:Re: A couple of little theories!)

[susanmcgee48176]

No: HPFGUIDX 162354

> 
> > >>Jenni from Alabama responds:
> > Really? Show me where any of the Trio are the first to start up 
> > things with any of the Slytherins! They always are defending 
> > themselves (or others). They even try to avoid confrontations 
with 
> > Draco and his bullies.
> > <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Good lord, the amount of times Draco gets hit from behind and in 
> greater numbers!.  There's the train scene in GoF.  There's the 
> quidditch pitch scene in OotP.  There's the laughing over the 
ferret 
> scene in GoF.  There's the infamous near murder of Montague in 
OotP.  
> I do agree that Draco does *say* mean things, but it's Harry and 
> friends doing the physical attacks.  And never (that I can recall) 
in 
> honest to goodness self-defense.  (Except the bathroom scene in 
HBP.)
> 
> Honestly, that Gryffindor is hailed as the house of chilvary is yet 
> more proof that chilvary is dead.  (Except for maybe Neville;  I 
love 
> Neville. <g>)
> 
> > >>Jenni from Alabama: 
> > And they don't condone cruelty, especially Hermione.
> > <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Oh dear... Hermione...  I think she's one of the cruelist 
characters 
> in the Potterverse.  Heading down a path to become the next 
> Umbridge.  Um... I'm quite sure tons of you will disagree.  But 
there 
> it is. (My opinion only here.)
> 
> Also, regarding the ferret scene: When I was a very small child 
(five 
> or six) my family toured a place somewhere (Africa? South America? 
> England?) where there were still dents on the floor made by people 
> dropped on the floor as a form of torture.  I had nightmares for a 
> while and have never forgotten it (though obviously some details 
were 
> lost <g>).  So I have a different take on a scene that involves a 
> known sadist throwing a child repeatedly against a stone floor 
> because he's mad at the child's father.
> 
> That Harry and Ron weren't horrified by it is I think only 
explained 
> by the fact that it was a ferret squealing in pain rather than a 
real 
> boy.  Both boys were young and sheltered, so I don't think they 
> recognized how far Fake!Moody was going.
> 
Sorry, but this is one of the reasons that I don't often engage on 
this list. It would be helpful to pay a little bit more close 
attention to the books, and to the comments of the author.

Draco Malfoy tried to kill Albus Dumbledore. He did so by smuggling 
in poison that almost killed Ron in error; and by smuggling in a 
necklace that almost killed Katie Bell. He lets Death Eaters into the 
castle who almost kill Bill Weasley. This is not the work of a nice 
kid. 

The train scene in the Goblet of Fire? Draco has just threatened 
Harry's life -- and referenced how delighted he was that Cedric 
Diggory was murdered. It's part of Draco's pattern - he says vile 
things to people when he is flanked by toady/thugs Crabbe and Goyle -
he calls Hermione a mudblood...

You can't recall a case of self-defense? Well, what about the fact 
that at the end of the Order of the Phoenix  "Firstly, Malfoy, Crabbe 
and Goyle, who had clearly been waiting all week for the opportunity 
to strike without teacher witnesses, attempted to ambush Harry 
halfway down the train as he made his way back from the toilet. The 
attack might have succeeded....."

In regards to the ferret scene, Harry, Ron and Hermione are minding 
their own business when Malfoy initiates the whole scene, attacks 
Ron's father, then insults Ron's mother (twice), and then attacks 
Harry from behind...? This wouldn't be a case of "real" self-defense? 
Obviously Barty Crouch, Junior is trying to establish himself as the 
friend of Harry and the enemy of Death Eaters/Malfoys....I think 
turning Malfoy into a ferret was poetic justice! As for him being 
seriously hurt, we don't even hear about him having to go to the 
hospital wing..And as for Hermione being cruel, if one read the 
books, one would be familiar with the fact that it was Hermione who 
approved Professor McGonagall's actions in rescuing Malfoy from 
Crouch/Moody. ("he could have really hurt Malfoy, though. It was 
good, really, that Professor McGonagall stopped it---."

In the next incident, Malfoy and Harry attack each other 
simultaneously, and when Hermione's teeth grow, Snape shows up, 
insults Hermione (a true Slytherin), punishes the Gryffindors but not 
the Slytherins.

It is to JKR's credit that she shows that even Draco Malfoy is 
redeemable.

Susan McGee
(want to join Harry Potter for Grownups over 40? email me at 
SusanGSMcGee at aol.com)