CHAPDISC: HBP26, The Cave

[snow15145]

No: HPFGUIDX 162399





Snipped summary of Chap. 26 by Zgirnius:

(1) Dumbledore is described a `hampered' by his injured hand 
during the climb down, and is described as swimming like a much 
younger man, shortly thereafter. Thoughts?

Snow:

I would have to say, don't underestimate the old man's abilities; 
just when you think he's too old for the job, he up and proves you 
wrong. 


2) In the antechamber as he seeks the hidden entrance, 
Dumbledore murmurs in a strange tongue Harry does not understand. Any 
ideas on this language and how Dumbledore came to know it? 


Snow:

Dumbledore knows some 400 languages, where would he have learned that 
many even at 150? His age and knowledge never seemed to be 
consistent, to me. Dumbledore is a colleague of Flammel and yet 
Flammel is 600 +/- years at the time, why would Flammel need or want 
Dumbledore's help? 

Lots of questions as to how Dumbledore knows as much as he does or 
did according to Marchbanks when he was just a youngster. 

3) Dumbledore insists on using his own blood to open the hidden 
archway, though Harry offers his own instead, because "your blood is 
worth more than mine." What does he mean by this?

Snow:

One of those hidden meanings, I surmise, that even though Dumbledore 
is as old as he is, or as wise as he is, or as feared by Voldemort as 
he is, only Harry can defeat Voldemort; Harry is worth much more than 
all that Dumbledore has to offer because Harry is the only one that 
can defeat Voldemort. 

4) Dumbledore heals the cut he has made by passing his wand once 
over it, and Harry is reminded of Snape's sung/chanted spell with 
which he healed Draco. Is this the nonverbal version, or something 
else? Why does Rowling choose to mention this similarity explicitly 
by having Harry note it?

Snow:

I guess it could be a connection that Harry needs to make between the 
song and Dumbledore and maybe even Fawkes. (It's the only time I ever 
connected the Phoenix song with Snape)

5) "Age is foolish and forgetful when it underestimates youth
" 
Dumbledore says of Voldemort, as he explains the boat would only hold 
one adult wizard. Is there any special significance to these words?

Snow:

I had to laugh when I read this because the first thing I thought of 
in this same scene was Harry's accio of the Horcrux and Dumbledore's 
reaction to such a simple but quite useful response. 

Sometimes it's best not to over-think what you need to do and simply 
react with your first inclination (like the young). Harry told the DA 
the very same when he gave examples of what he had used when 
confronted by Voldemort
You don't always need fancy footwork or 
extreme knowledge; you just need gut response. 

6) Is Dumbledore too quick to conclude the potion must be drunk? 
Why or why not?

Snow:

I didn't feel it was a quick response on Dumbledore's part at all. I 
think Dumbledore gave the potion a good once over and concluded that 
the result was inevitable by deduction. 

7) Is the potion a poison? Why or why not?

Snow:

Yes! I believe all the Horcruxes have protection against intruders! 

8) What do Dumbledore's experiences drinking the potion tell us 
about him? What is the meaning of his words and actions?

Snow:

I believe the memories that Dumbledore experienced were not his own 
but I also believe Dumbledore had to relive those memories as if they 
were his and feel the full feelings of the person(s) they belonged 
to. I also feel that Dumbledore had his suspicions of who those 
memories may have belonged to but didn't live long enough to share 
this information due to his declining health and limited time in how 
much should be told to Harry without confusion.

9) Dumbledore warns Harry not to touch the water both as he gets 
into the boat and as he disembarks. Why do you think he does this? 

Snow:

Voldemort may have lost his connection or concern with his Horcruxes 
due to his protective measures that have been born with or placed 
with them, but Voldemort may be alerted to the movement of the 
Inferei like the movement of the Dementors of the Giants. 


10) What do you think about the fact that Harry *did* use the 
water?Do you believe the lake water had any effect on Dumbledore?

Snow:

The lake water was the seemingly cure but with the price of an 
Inferei revolt, which should have taken care of whomever got to such 
a level of intrusion. If by chance it did not, the potion or 
protection of the Horcrux would return in full measure. 

11) What did you think of Harry's attempts to fight the Inferi?

Snow:

Panic! Harry was forewarned of the measure that was to be taken if 
this event occurred and he totally lost control
then again he wasn't 
in control of the expedition to begin with. When Harry went after the 
SS, he was the chief; when Harry went into the Chamber, again Harry 
was the leader; when Harry went to the DOM, Harry was the general
 

in this instance, however, Harry was the follower to Dumbledore the 
magnificent leader. 

Control was taken out of Harry's hands and his instructions blurred 
by his new position as follower, helper. It's not easy to change 
positions in midstream even when you were told the instructions to do 
so beforehand.  

12) Dumbledore tells Harry, once they are walking along the 
lakeshore, "The protection was
after all
well designed," and asserts 
one person could not have defeated it alone. What do you think he 
meant? How do you suppose the mysterious RAB managed to defeat the 
protection?

Snow:

I very much doubt that RAB whether it is Regulus or a well-
accomplished wizard, (no one could have been more accomplished than 
Dumbledore and Harry as a team) would have ever survived this 
encounter with or without the necklace let alone exchanging it.  

This isn't to suggest that RAB was not Regulus; simply that he did 
not perform the same feet as Dumbledore and Harry. If Regulus stole 
the necklace it was under different circumstances. 

13) Dumbledore's final words in the chapter are clearly a 
passing of the torch, in retrospect, and mirror his words to Harry 
in "Horace Slughorn," when he tells Harry he need not worry about 
being attacked because "You are with me." Does Dumbledore know or 
suspect what he will find back at Hogwarts? And, is Harry prepared to 
take up the fight?

Snow:

I'm not sure the two are related. First, I don't think Dumbledore 
expected or was prepared to face the Dark Mark over the Castle; 
Dumbledore seemed to be taken by surprise that ultimately gave him 
strength that he did not possess. 

Second, Harry isn't `prepared' to take up the fight but he has been 
chosen to do so and he appears to except that position. 

Lastly, the sentimental statement from Dumbledore, "You are with me" 
is the ultimate power booster from Dumbledore that Harry does have 
the ability to go it alone without him. I feel that Harry tapped into 
this unconsciously when he spoke to the Minister of Magic in the last 
scene of book six. 

Dumbledore gave Harry the courage to transport them both (side-along 
apparition) back to Hogsmeade when he hadn't even passed the 
apparition test alone yet, which gave me insight that Harry became 
confident with these words to do whatever needs to be done
alone. 

14) Does the chapter title "The Cave" have any special 
significance? Is its setting in a cave important? (Important events 
at the ends of PS/SS, CoS, and PoA involve subterranean settings, as 
well).

Snow:

Very, very good question! I never connected all the books in such a 
way but quite some time ago I felt that the ending would have been 
under Gringott's because of the ravine over a lake that was only 
mentioned in passing. JKR likes that type of setup where you only 
hear mention once and then it is brought back in full-blown detail. 

I liked this because it was over a lake and there are so many 
references to a lake, the obvious being the one near the Castle. 

Durmstrang entered the Castle in the lake. Gringott's has said to be 
protected by dragons, which brings in Charlie Weasley and maybe 
Norbert. Moaning Myrtle has access to the lake (as we have seen in 
GOF) via the pipes. The Basilisk traveled the pipes around Hogsworth, 
which may mean that it had access to the lake. The Ministry's lower 
level has no windows, which could mean that it is of the level of the 
lake. The first-years must enter Hogsworth via the lake.

Now that you bring up the connection between the cave (and the water 
[lake] they had to swim to it) and the other books' high-peak-moments 
being of underground nature, the more I like my scenario from years 
ago about Gringott's. It would bring those feisty little goblins into 
light that we were sooo bored over in History class.  

Thanks for the great questions Zgirnius!

Snow- with apologies to Carol for not replying to the last post we 
were discussing (I do that a lot and feel very bad that I don't have 
the time to look up the link to reply to because its been so long and 
can't find it; you can't imagine how many I have deleted because its 
been too long for a response when I finally do find it)