ESE, DDM, OFH, or Grey? Snape with Lifedebt

[Sydney]

No: HPFGUIDX 162490


> Sarah:
> I think I phrased that wrong.  I think that DDM and ESE are both the
> easy ways out, and a waste of years of build-up.  

Sydney:

If the story was about Snape, yes.  But the story's about Harry. 
OFH!Snape has no payoff for Harry as that's already who he thinks he
is (including life debt); ESE! has a bit of payoff in terms of a
little cheap revenge satisfaction (either by being the Bigger Man and
Forgiving him, or by dancing on his grave).  DDM!Snape has a huge
payoff for Harry's character, and it's the payoff we've been building
up to for six books.


> Sarah:
> With the exception of Lily, this all still works with what I expect to
> happen.  Maybe Snape didn't fear consequences of the Life Debt, maybe
> it just suddenly became very important to him.  


Sydney:

*furrows brow*  Just suddenly for no reason? 

Sarah:

My point is that
> either way, I think the Life Debt is important enough to be a motive,
> which negates the need for Snape-loved-Lily which only serves to
> accomplish the exact same goals as the Life Debt.
> If Snape loved Lily, and the Life Debt is also important, what would
> Snape-loved-Lily accomplish?


Sydney:

My point is that Lily being endangered *was* the effect of the Life
Debt and what *made* it a motive.  That pulls the two strands together
and makes them the same thing.  Like Lockhart didn't leave Hogwarts
because of the DADA Curse, he left it because of his addiction to
memory-charming people and a broken wand, except that it was the *same
thing*.  What other effect did the DADA Curse have?  The big
Coincidences of Doom payoffs at the end of each book *are* the DADA
curse.  My theory is that "Snape loved Lily and she married James and
then Snape put them both in mortal danger and was motivated to change
his whole life to try to save Lily and consequently James and
consequently Harry" *is* the Life Debt in operation.  That's what it
looks like.  The Life Debt, like the DADA curse, is IMO magic that
uses existing circumstances and motivations, it doesn't create new
ones.  It's a compositon, not an independent object.


Sarah: 
  More reason for Harry to want to barf
> when he thinks about Snape?  I think he has enough.

Sydney:

Yeah, that's the point.  Not to make Harry barf mind you, but to
effect some sort of turn around in Harry's hatred for Snape, which has
been a potent consistent strand of conflict from one end of the books
to the other. 


> Sarah:
> Well, by his own words he was happy to stay out of Azkaban and be in a
> cozy castle and have a job.  I don't know if he likes his job that
> much, but it beats prison. 

Sydney:

Snape was '*cleared* by [the] council', he wasn't going to go to
Azkaban.  Fudge seems perfectly comfortable suggesting he might get an
Order of Merlin.  Umbrige would be the character to hold something
like that over his head, but the only thing she uses against him is
his failed applications for the DADA job; and she refers to the fact
that "Lucius Malfoy speaks highly of him" as a good thing.  Surely if
he was a disgraced unemployable outcast before HBP we would have seen
one-- even *one scene*!-- that points this out!  I don't see anything
in canon that suggests he couldn't get another job (Spinner's End not
being much evidence for anything, scene that this is
Undercover!Snape).  Karkaroff was actually convicted and he could go
off and be Headmaster of Durmstrang.  And if Snape is so into his
comfortable job, how come he's after the leave-Hogwarts-in-a-year
cursed job?  Whatever Snape is after "comfort" has never been
something that sprang to mind.  And if it was, I thing JKR would have
found a way to show it.

-- Sydney