The Train Scene GoF

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 162497

wynnleaf wrote:
> First, just for the record, I think it's fairly clear that Draco
isn't actually making threats, he's making nasty taunting remarks. 
The trio don't respond as though they think they're in danger -- no
> expelliarmus, or other defensive spells, just the hexes and jinxes
> that insult - the kind of stuff people apparently do in the halls of
> Hogwarts over various altercations.  If they *really* thought they
> were being threatened, and didn't realize the others were about to
> fire off spells also, then they were pretty silly to be casting
> non-defense spells, weren't they?  But they weren't threatened. 
They were insulted.
> 
> Now, what about the aftermath?  JKR is careful to point out that the
> boys did not drag Draco and Co. out into the hall.  They kicked,
> pushed and rolled them out, and one of the twins was careful to step
> on one of the unconscious boys.  Now while we might be able to
excuse this in the heat of the moment, why does JKR so specifically
describe their actions?  She did, after all, have the choice of the
boys dragging the unconscious bodies out the door.  But no.  She chose
to show them kicking unconscious boys.
> 
> And that's not all.  They continue their travels for what is obviously
> hours.  The boys in the hall don't wake up to find themselves
> incapacitated.  They don't wake up at all.  When the train stops in
> London, they are still unconscious.  Now any self-respecting 14 year
> old with a reasonable intelligence should realize that someone
> unconscious for that long a period probably really needs help.  But
> does the trio care?  Oh no.
> 
> And once again, JKR is careful to let us *know* they don't care,
> having them all step over the bodies, hauling out their trunks and
> other belongings.   And they go home without alerting anyone to the
> unconscious bodies in the hall.  
> 
> With all the trouble JKR has gone to in order to show us the trio
and twins hexing some taunting boys into unconsciousness, kicking
their unconscious bodies, leaving them in a hallway for hours, and
then unconcernedly walking over their still unconscious bodies on
their way home -- I certainly hope she plans to eventually show us
that Harry and Co. really need to learn that the good guys are
supposed to actually be considered "good" because they act differently
- not just because they support the right side.
> 
> Remember how terrible Draco was to Harry on the train in HBP?  Why,
he shouldn't have felt threatened by Harry at all, right?  After all,
> Harry was just hiding in his train compartment eavesdropping --
Harry wasn't really a threat.  What had he ever done to Draco??  (hmm)
 So Draco froze Harry and kicked him (which is worse - to kick someone
> who's unconscious, or frozen? - I don't know).  And then Draco left
> him there and went on to Hogwarts.  And this shows us how mean and
> evil Draco is, right???

Carol responds:
Sorry to leave the post unsnipped, but I agree with almost every word.
HRH and the Twins left Draco and Co., who had not even pulled theiir
wands or shaken their fists, in the corridor unconscious and
deliberately added insult to injury (or is that injury to insult) by
stepping on them. As I said in another post that everyone ignored,
Draco did not threaten them: he predicted what would happen to them
when Voldemort came to power, much as he predicted (correctly) that
"Mudbloods" would be the next victims of the Heir of Slytherin in CoS.
The Trio interpreted this remark as a threat (they thought that Draco
was the Heir) but they turned out to be wrong. He wasn't threatening
to do anything, just predicting danger to his enemies and gloating
about it. He's doing exactly the same thing in GoF, provoking them
rather than threatening them, and this time HRH and the Twins
retaliate--not because Draco is posing a threat himself but because
they want to punish him for his words. One of the Twins (I think it's
George) even jokes that Crabbe's (or Goyle's?) mother won't recognize
him because he looks so much better with tentacles sprouting from his
face. Their behavior is altogether cold and callous, and I see nothing
to mark it as the behavior of good guys. Nor does this scene bode well
for the future when they're dealing with real Death Eaters (which
Draco emphatically is *not* in GoF). Good guys may kill their enemies
in self-defense or in war, but they don't mutilate their corpses.
That's the behavior of barbarians, not of civilized modern people.

I would suggest that the indignity and humiliation and utter contempt
with which he's treated, deserved or not, provides Draco with a motive
for revenge in the HBP train scene. And eavesdropping!Harry provides
him with the perfect opportunity and excuse. Harry is not about to
report this incident to a teacher, even a teacher other than Snape.

At any rate, Draco does much the same thing to Harry in HBP as the
Trio did to him except that he makes sure Harry feels the pain of
being stepped on when he breaks his nose and steps on his hand. (He
could have stupefied him rather than Petrifying him, but Draco's
motive is almost certainly revenge--not just for the GoF incident but
for the imprisonment of his father. And he, like Harry, believes
himself to be on the right side in the upcoming war. (Granted, he also
believes that it's the winning side.) We can understand his behavior
but we can't admire it, and, IMO, its resemblance to HRH's and the
Twins' in GoF ought to make us exceedingly uncomfortable.

On a side note relating to the Sectumsempra chapter, this incident,
unpleasant as it is, reveals that Harry is not the target of the
assassination attempts. If he were, Draco would have killed him then
and there, without hesitation, or at least attempted to do so. He
certainly hates Harry, and he had not yet learned what Voldemort--and
death--are really about. But as Quirrell says of Snape in SS/PS, "Yes,
he hates you, but he doesn't want you dead." That's the lesson Harry
learns from casting Sectumsempra, IMO. He may hate Draco, but he
doesn't want him dead, especially by his own hand. Too bad his remorse
is so short-lived. Maybe Snape should have been a little less
efficient, leaving Draco still wounded but not dying. But Draco's
quick recovery, along with a detention that adds to his resentment of
Snape and makes him miss Quidditch and the attentions of Ginny, seems
to erase the whole incident from Harry's mind (except for two
references to Snape's healing of Draco's wounds and the later ability
to feel pity for Draco despite the damage he's caused).

IOW, I don't think we're supposed to approve the callous mistreatment
of enemies nor attacks not made in self-defense any more than we're
supposed to approve of James's bullying behavior in "Snape's worst
enemy." There are certain forms of behavior that good guys shouldn't
stoop to, and IMO that's a lesson that Harry and his friends have yet
to learn. Harry needs to stop trying to cast Crucios, Hermione needs
to curb her desire for revenge on anyone who hurts her (which reminds
me of James's hexing people who annoyed him just because he could),
the Twins need to learn that you don't torment helpless Muggles just
because they're gits. Fairness, justice, mercy, compassion, nobility,
second chances--those are the traits that Dumbledore stands for. I
only hope that HRH learn those lessons before it's too late.

Carol, who is not asking them to turn the other cheek and allow their
enemies to kill, capture, or torture them, only to avoid stooping to
their enemies' methods and values