The Train Scene GoF/ Sirius, Snape and werewolf incident/ Quote from PoA.

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 162509

> > Alla:
> > 
> > Um, yes, staying away for too long did not work out for me :)
> > 
> > Harry invaded Slytherins' privacy, he did not belong in their 
> > apartment, just as Draco and his goons did not belong in Gryffs' 
> > apartment and while I understand why Harry was there from his POV 
> ( 
> > investigation of bad guys is worth the risk to me), I totally, 
> > totally understand Darco's reaction here. I think I am being 
> > perfectly consistent in evaluating these scenes.
> 
> wynnleaf
> If I had not read your other posts regarding Harry and the trio's 
> reponses in GOF, I might assume that you mean that you *understand* 
> Draco's actions in HBP, while not *condoning* them.  But since you 
> appear to feel that you both understand *and* condone Harry's 
> actions in GOF, I must assume that, to be "perfectly consistent," 
> you condone Draco's actions as well.  Therefore, it must be okay 
for 
> students who feel themselves threatened in any way to hex one 
> another into unconsciousness, kick and injure an incapacitated 
> student, and leave an injured person alone without help, and 
neglect 
> to notify anyone to help that person.

Alla:

Actually close but not quite. I did not say anything about leaving 
Draco and goons unconscious as being Okay. That is one part of their 
reaction which I do not find to be okay. They should have called for 
help. I still understand them, but do not condone that.

Yes, hexing them - have no problem with it just as have no problem 
with Draco hexing Harry. I do think that since Harry was not issuing 
any threats, the damage Draco did was excessive, but fully admit that 
this is probably not an objective reaction and of course do find 
Draco not calling for help to not be okay.

So, yes, I think I am being consistent, if not perfectly consistent 
than as close to consistent as possible considering of course that I 
hate Malfoy and everything he stands for, but I am trying really hard 
to leave my emotions out of it. :)


wynnleaf:
> Well, to each his or her own I suppose.


Alla:

Yes.


> > Alla:
> > 
> > LOLOL. Sirius **already** does not look good at all with the 
> > information we have about Prank, me thinks. If any reevaluation 
is 
> to 
> > follow, he has nowhere to go but up IMO.
> 
> zgirnius:
> Reading your thoughts below, we would learn that Sirius betrayed 
his 
> friend's secret to an enemy that wanted to kill him. I would say 
that 
> makes him look worse. No wonder Lupin had no trouble believing he 
had 
> done it again.

Alla:

No, sorry that does not follow to me at all. It seems perfectly 
plausible to me that Sirius had no clue that Snape figured who Remus 
is and went in wanting to kill Remus.  

So, Sirius looks bad right now, I do not see how he can look any 
worse, unless of course the idea that Sirius wanted to kill Snape 
would get canon support - not as Sirius sending Snape to the danger, 
but Sirius **wanting** Snape to die.


> Alla:
> > Neri, just think of how easy that would be to do - all that 
needed 
> is 
> > to say that Snape did not waste time reading that werewolf essay 
in 
> > pensieve scene and figured out way before he went to Shack who 
> Remus 
> > was and that he went to Shack to prove how good of Dark art 
experts 
> > he was to kill that dark creature, with the curse of his own 
> > invention, no less.
> > 
> > Ummmm, yeah, that I can see happening.
> 
> zgirnius:
> Except for the seeming agreement by various parties (Dumbledore, 
> Lupin, and Snape himself) that James saved Snape's life. That curse 
> of his own invention seems like it ought to have done the trick, 
but 
> Lupin is alive, and no mention was ever made about any serious 
> injuries to him. This is the sort of detail I would expect to read 
> Sirius mumbling right after a statement like 'He deserved it', it 
> sounds so much more convincing than 'he was always following us 
> around, the greasy git' (paraphrase).
>

Alla:

Why would JKR make Sirius say anything of the sort in book three? 
When we only learn of that curse in book 6. There is only one book 
left as we all know, and still JKR promised more about that blasted 
night, so that maybe rather important to the end of the books IMO.

I may hope that the reason why it is important is what Neri said - 
making Snape look worse. ;) I can be totally off of course and say 
Pippin will be doing happy dance at the end, when we learn that 
Lupin's evil mastermind was behind conspiracy to kill Snape or that 
Sirius planned to kill Snape after all. :) But I will hope for now.

Come to think of it Why would the "James not saving Snape life" not 
be true, if Snape may have no chance to use it?

I was speculating that he **wanted** to use it, NOT that he actually 
did.
This is of course speculation but the fact that **werewolf 
recognizing essay** is mentioned twice in canon and both times in 
connection with recognizing Lupin and both times Snape is involved 
too makes me coming back to it over and over again.


As an aside I was wondering whether the following quote from PoA may 
have any relevance or any possible clues about what happened during 
that night.

I must warn - I do not have any ideas whether that means anything or 
not, basically. It is just something about this quote does not sit 
right with me and I want to hear what others think. I vaguely 
remember wanting to post this quote in the past, don't think I ever 
did, if anybody remembers thread discussing it, please refer me to it.

"They planted the Whomping Willow the same year I arrived to 
Hogwarts. People used to play a game  trying to touch the trunks. In 
the end, a boy called Davey Gudgeon nearly lost an eye, and we were 
forbidden to go near it. No broomstick would have a chance" - p.186, 
PoA, paperback, am.ed.

Again, I don't have any thoughts about it, I just find it strange and 
I don't know why.