[HPforGrownups] Re: ESE, DDM, OFH, or Grey? (WAS: DDM!Snape the definition)

[Scarah]

No: HPFGUIDX 162536

Sydney:

Is there a OFH!Snape explanation for the fight in the forest?  Is
Snape actually arguing with Dumbledore about what side he's on?
Wouldn't he be hiding this?  And why is Dumbledore still saying he
trusts him completely in that case?  If anyone could come up with an
OFH! or Grey! storyline that would explain the twitch, the argument,
and most, most, most importantly Dumbledore's pleading with Snape the
second he comes on the scene, I'd be happy to entertain it.

Sarah:
That's the thing.  I'm sure other posters' mileage will vary, but I'd
explain all of these things almost identically to how a DDM believer
would.  The only real difference is the underlying reason why Snape
even bothers with any of it at all.  I think he has to for
self-preservation because of the Life Debt plot device, and I guess
DDM thinks one of two things: he's just a secretly awesome guy who
deep down loves freedom for all, or else his only reason to get out of
bed in the morning is his deep and abiding love of Dumbledore.

I'm not sure the forest argument is as straight forward as it seems,
though.  What's the DDM consensus on this?  Do people reckon that
Snape wants to just let the UV kill him that Dumbledore may live?  I
don't think that, because I think that Snape's murder pact with
Dumbledore predates the UV, and was the reason he felt he had the
green light to go ahead and make the UV.  Hagrid thinks it's something
to do with the necklace, and it's possible Snape is asking something
about having to do with Draco.  Draco says later that Snape had been
yelling at him about how lame the necklace was.

Which twitch are we talking about?  The hatred and revulsion?  I don't
think OFH precludes Snape feeling gratitude for Dumbledore who picked
him up, dusted him off, cleared his name, and gave him a job.  And as
folks have pointed out, it's the same expression on Harry's mug while
feeding Dumbledore a barrel of poison.  But it doesn't have to be just
one reason.  Snape might not like teaching all that much, but I think
he likes being a double agent.  (Not that he still can't be, but he
can't be for all public appearances.)  It's scored him numerous points
with both Dumbledore and Voldemort over the years.  And now he has to
go on the run from the law.  Bother!

As far as "Severus please" goes, I'd say the same as any DDM.  It
means, "Remember that whole death pact thing?  Would you mind going
ahead with that now?  Thank you, have a nice day."

Sydney:
If JKR wanted to give Grey!Snape a choice on the tower, I don't think
she would have arranged that one-- one where Draco's and Harry's lives
are in the balance as well.

Sarah:
And here we agree, I don't think he had choice one.  Even if Snape
wanted to break his UV, Draco wasn't working as fast as the poison
was.  I don't know if he knew or how he would have known about the
poison or Harry, but if he didn't, Dumbledore is still sliding down
the wall.  If he did somehow, would Dumbledore count as a suicide
soul-wise, or would Harry count as his murderer?  Either would be very
bad for the story.  ;)

Sydney:
And why would any brand of wavering, indecisive, keeping his options
open Snape take an Unbreakable Vow when no one's holding a gun to his
head?

Sarah:
Agreed again, I think he took the UV because:  It was no skin off
since all this was set up with Dumbledore as soon as he showed up with
his crisped hand.  Narcissa wants him to maybe kill Dumbledore if he
has to, which he already told Dumbledore he would, so there's no
reason to resist when it gets him in good with Narcissa and maybe
helps quell some doubts of Bellatrix.

Jen:
It's not likely Snape will have that large a role in
Book Seven. In the end he will either help Harry or
he won't. And Harry's final impression will simply
be one of two--ESE!Snape ("Aha, I always knew it!!")
or DDM!Snape ("Looks like he really was on our side
all along, and I'll have to respect that even if he's
still a miserable git!").

Sarah:
But therein lies the beauty of OFH/Life Debt.  (Not Grey.)  If Snape
does all the stuff that he does because of a relatively simply
understood plot device, there is hope that Harry could plausibly find
it out without someone taking three chapters to describe the decades
of history of Snape's innermost thoughts.

Sarah