The Train Scene GoF/ Hero vs Anti-Hero/Draco, Ginny, & Tom, oh my!

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 162623

---  "Shaun Hately" <drednort at ...> wrote:
>
> On 7 Dec 2006 at 6:03, wynnleaf wrote:
> 
> > > Now, what about the aftermath?  JKR is careful 
> > > to point out that the boys did not drag Draco and
> > > Co. out into the hall.  They kicked, pushed and 
> > > rolled them out, and one of the twins was careful 
> > > to step on one of the unconscious boys.  ...

> Shaun"
> 
> Yes, she did. And for me, when I read that, I was 
> utterly horrified at what they did. I condemn it utterly.
> I could never ever condone it.
> 
> But I understand it. And though I cannot and could never
> condone it, I find myself able to  forgive it.
> 


bboyminn:

Shaun, excellent to have you back again, always good to
hear from you, and congradulations again on your degree.
We can always count on you for insightful knowledge into
school life, and again you have not disappointed us.

I just want to add one comment on the 'Kicking' issue.
Of course, my statements only reflect the way I read
the scene, but I don't get any sense that 'kick'
represents 'Blunt Force Trama'. They didn't kick Draco
in the assaultive sense. They merely used their feet
to push him out the door. This was one more form of
disrespect and show of contempt for Draco, but under no
circumstances do I see it in any way assaultive. 

These kick were really pushes with the feet. For some
one they cared about and respected they may have taken
the time and made the effort to bend over and use their
hands to move the person. But who cares about a lout like
Draco, so they don't even bother to bend over. The just 
use their feet to kick (meaning 'push') him out the door.

People are applying a connotation to 'kick' that implies
a horrible assaultive act, and I think that interpretaiton
is completely inappropriate to the situation. True it 
wasn't very nice of them to 'kick' (meaning push) Draco 
out the door, but it wasn't an act that cause any physical
harm. At least, not the way I read it.

As to the Twins being bullies, well, I can't bring myself
to say that you are wrong, but I'm having a lot of trouble
agreeing that you are right.

In one sense, we could be witnessing and experiencing
being one of the cool kids as another cool kid bullies
a nerd. We have a sense of kinship with the bully, and
we don't see the harm. It's just good naturered teasing
to everyone except the Nerd who is being bullied. 

On the other hand, there could be a real difference 
between what the Twins do and what Draco does.

As an illustration, let's take the biggest Nerd in the
Series, Neville, and look at a few of his encounters.
Consider Neville's psychological state after an encounter
with one of the Twins 'jokes'. No one likes to be the
butt of a joke. We are all embarassed and uncomfortable
when we are in that position. But Neville seems to take
it in good humor, and doesn't seem to hold a grudge. 
It seems fair to say 'no damage done'.

Now look at Neville after any encounter with Draco & Co,
what is his mental state like? It strikes me that he 
isn't just embarassed but is humiliated, and suffers
real emotional trama as a result. 

The Twins seem to know when to draw the line between a
'joke' and harassment. I'm not saying they alway succeed,
but they do seem to apply some underlying sensitivity to
when enough is enough, to when the joke stops being funny.

That is the difference, I think, between annoying and
embarassing pranksters like the Twins, and a real vicious
bully like Draco. The Twins want to cause humorous 
embarassment, Draco wants to cause painful humilation and
degradation.

Again, on occassion the Twins might cross the line, but
they are trying not to cross that line. Draco on the other
hand is trying with all his might to do just that, cross 
the line. That is the objective of his brand of bullying.

So, while being associate with the Twins can certainly 
cause painful embarassment, and even anger, it rarely 
causes harm. In that sense, I can see an /element/ of 
bullying since certain people are more susceptible to a 
pranks, like Neville, and those people probably already 
suffer enough trama. But I don't see the underlying 
viciousness in their actions to come right out and label
them bullies. Yet, I can't deny that some of their pranks,
like iching powered in your pajamas, invoke anger and 
pain. 

Personally, I don't think I am reluctant because the Twin
are cool kids just like me (stop laughing!). I think as
bad as some of their joke are, they just lack the 
viciousness of Draco, and they don't concentrate strictly
on the weak and helpless. The Twin are equal opportunity 
jokers. 

For what it's worth.

Steve/bboyminn