[HPforGrownups] Re: ESE, DDM, OFH, or Grey? (WAS: DDM!Snape the definition)

[Bart Lidofsky]

No: HPFGUIDX 162636

Jen Reese wrote:
Jen:
> Jen: Noble Snape willing-to-die-for-the-cause is difficult to take, 
> including willingness to die for Draco.  And while I'm on the 
> subject, any version of Snape as misunderstood, diamond in the rough 
> or scapegoated, any version where the outside is one way and the 
> inside is another makes DDM ring false for me, I find myself wanting 
> him to be evil just so he doesn't have to suffer what I see as a 
> makeover.  I'm opinionated on this one...no one can tell, right? 

Actually, under my EBA theory, it's fairly easy to take. Snape considers 
himself to be quite heroic. Look at his attitude towards Harry, and 
consider it under the following thought-form: "I'm 100 times the hero 
this stupid kid ever was, yet, just like his father, everybody gives him 
all the glory, when he would be nowhere if it weren't for people like 
me." True, his jealousy is never explicitly stated, but I would 
appreciate if someone could give me a more logical thought-form behind it.

Jen:
 > I'm thinking the awful thing Snape has to do is choose Harry's
> life over Dumbledore's.  Dumbledore is pleading for Snape to save the 
> boys and carry out his plan for Harry from the inside and *Snape* 
> decides what must be done.  The only thing that bothers me about this 
> scenario is DD lands on the tower under the Dark Mark and tells Harry 
> to get Snape.  Dumbledore knows the death that night will be his own 
> and he doesn't ask Harry to get heroic willing-to-die-for-the-cause 
> Order members, he asks for Snape.  But still I like the idea that 
> Snape's redemption will have added value if he wasn't just following 
> an order, that he made a choice and has to live with it.  Live with 
> the resentment toward Dumbledore, Harry and even Draco and still 
> follow Dumbledore's plan at the same time.

Bart:
Given the supplemental theory that Dumbledore was already living on 
borrowed time when HPB started (and the not illogical step that he was 
being kept going by Snape's "death stoppering" potions), Snape would 
have been useful to help fix him up OR kill him, the latter if the time 
was right. One thing which I have mentioned before is to think of 
Snape's comments to Harry while running away, and think of WHY Snape is 
saying what he's saying. Because if you consider what he's saying, it 
comes down to, "This is what you need to do if you want to beat 
Voldemort."  Now, there are two logical possibilities I can think of 
behind this. The first, which is the obvious one, which I do not believe 
stands up under scrutiny, is, "This kid is so stupid that I can give him 
the method to beat Voldemort right in his face, and he STILL won't use 
it." The problem with this is that Snape is a Slytherin, not a 
Gryffindor. That kind of bravado is more a Gryffindor trait; from a 
Slytherin viewpoint, what he was saying only made sense if he's making a 
last-ditch effort to give Harry what he needs, without blowing his 
cover. If JKR runs true to form, Hermoine will be the one to point it 
out to Harry, who will not want to believe it, but will eventually 
accept it.

	Bart