ESE, DDM, OFH, or Grey? (WAS: DDM!Snape the definition)

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 162671

Carol:
> But my question is simply, if Snape isn't Out for Himself and he
> isn't Voldemort's Man and he *is* genuinely loyal to Dumbledore,
> genuinely remorseful for the eavesdropping and its consequences,
> genuinely protective of Harry though he hates him and views him as
> inadequate, why not concede that he's Dumbledore's Man? That, IMO,
> is where his loyalties lie, and that's all that DDM!Snape means. It
> doesn't mean Good!Snape or Loving!Snape or Nice!Snape. Snape 
> wouldn't be Snape if he weren't sarcastic and supercilious.

Jen:  It's not about winning some point, it's about truly having a 
difference of opinion given the information we have so far.  It's 
about seeing distinctions between Harry and Snape in how their 
loyalty plays out regarding the actions they take and why.  I believe 
Snape's loyalties are with Dumbledore *and* I don't understand why he 
chose to undermine everything they have worked for with the UV.  
Saying I am DDM is therefore false because DDM by necessity says 
there is a good reason Snape took the UV, that it furthered 
Dumbledore's cause and was taken out of Snape's loyalty to 
Dumbledore.  And if DDM doesn't propose there is a good reason for 
the UV then I believe it should, so my objection to Snape being 
Dumbledore's Man Through And Through remains and I prefer to think of 
him as Grey.  

Carol:
> I guess what bothers you is not so much what happened on the tower,
> which was virtually inevitable given the way events fell out, but 
> the UV, which you think was Snape's own fault. And, indeed, it 
> could have been his hamartia, the tragic flaw or error that brings 
> about his down though I personally hope not. I do see it as the 
> instrument of the DADA curse, which uses a secret or flaw within 
> the character to cause him to lose his position. I personally don't
>  think the DADA post brings out the evil in him, which I think he 
> left behind when he returned to Dumbledore (though he still has his
> unpleasant personailty). 

Jen:  I'd like to find out if the DADA is involved or not and how it 
operates.  At this point judging from how the other professors were 
affected it doesn't change who a person is, but does rely on bringing 
forward a person's weakness or flaws in order to force the terms of 
leaving the job.

It's hard for me to imgaine Voldemort placing an innocuous jinx/curse 
such as a person simply being forced to leave the post.  Although he 
does keep using DADA teachers for his plans and so far none of them 
have failed to get him to the point he wanted even though *he* failed 
to bring his plan home. That may be evidence for a more innocuous 
curse.  I'm not sure what that would mean for Snape and the UV 
though, whether that means Voldemort was using Snape for his plans 
via Bella/Naricissa or if it wasn't even his idea for Snape to take 
the position and the UV was a lucky break or ???

Carol:
> Why not pity him as a tragic character who supports the right cause
> but is trapped by his own past, his own choices, especially if the
> anguish he feels is genuine remorse for killing his mentor?

Jen:  Can't I pity him and hold him responsible for his choices at 
the same time?  Feel compassion and contempt?  Understand his anguish 
and explore how he got to that point at the same time?  I'm not 
trying to dog Snape, I'm trying to make sense of the tower given all 
the information in HBP and understand where JKR is headed with his 
story.  In any event, there's no moral obligation to view a fictional 
character a certain way especially when the author shadows said 
character for her own convenience in order to further her plot.