The Cabinet Plan...again (was:Re: The UV (was ESE, DDM, OFH, or Grey?)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 162821

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Right, but it's what Draco *showed* Borgin that did the trick.  
> > Borgin was already frightened and changing his tune when Draco 
> > followed through with the Fenrir threat. (The bragging wasn't the 
> > powerful bit.)

> >>a_svirn:
> Why do you assume that it was bragging then? In the beginning of    
> HBP Draco gave Borgin (sorry, it was Borgin, of course)to          
> understand that he is Grayback's colleague. And sure enough, in the 
> end of HBP Grayback shows up among the group of hit-men. Where do   
> you see the snag? 

Betsy Hp:
I see Draco's statement as very fuzzy as far as truthfulness goes 
because he refers to Fenrir as a "family friend", which is an 
impossibility.  There's no way a family as stuck on blood purity as 
the Malfoys are is going to befriend a creature with a blood 
disease.  Draco is exaggerating, as Draco is wont to do.  

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > Why should Draco have felt Fenrir was likely to come? 

> >>a_svirn:
> He didn't have to *feel* anything. He *knew* that Grayback was part 
> of the group.

Betsy Hp:
Um... why is the word "feel" such a big deal here?  (That's an aside, 
I'll move on to the main argument now. <g>)

> >>a_svirn:
> That makes odds for his showing up at the grand finale rather good.

> >>Magpie:
> I don't think it's necessarily that stupid. I mean, obviously
> Fenrir is involved and Draco knows that perfectly well, but it     
> doesn't seem odd he wouldn't think he was coming. It's not like    
> Fenrir is some go-to guy that's always at every DE thing,and if    
> Draco thinks of him a savage he might never think he'd be sent on   
> delicate operations.

> >>Alla:
> There is stupid IMO and there is stupid. It is completely
> unbelievable to me that Draco would not guess that Greyback would
> come not because he knows the name, but precisely because Draco
> threatens Borgin with the name - the leap to make from there is not
> big for me.

Betsy Hp:
Both Alla and a_svirn are making the mistake (IMO <g>) of thinking 
that Draco should realize he's in a novel.  We, the reader, can 
expect a heavily foreshadowed character like Fenrir to show up again 
(especially at a school given the limited background we've learned).  
But Draco is supposed to assume that out of several nameless Death 
Eaters he knows (that we've never met since we've not sat on Draco's 
shoulder during the entirety of his life as he's met and/or heard of 
several possible Death Eaters) that the mad werewolf is going to be 
the one sent?

Sorry, but that's stretching it, IMO.  To show that Draco's surprise 
is fake, you'll need to show a tell that hints as such at the time he 
expresses his surprise.  That Draco know Fenrir exists, works for 
Voldemort from time to time, and is scary isn't enough.  Just as we 
knew we'd know who the Half-Blood Prince was, but as far as Harry was 
concerned it could have been Joe Blow, Ravenclaw, Class of '56.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Who did Draco murder?  

> >>a_svirn:
> No one. I said he stooped to murder, but we all know very well that 
> he wasn't successful. Or, as Dumbledore said, he was "lucky". Which 
> actually means that his victims were lucky. 

Betsy Hp:
I'm still confused.  Who did Draco murder, that we can say he stooped 
to murder? What lucky victim of Draco's desire to murder are you 
referring to here?  Because as far as I've read, Draco had the 
opportunity to murder one person, Dumbledore.  And he chose not to do 
so.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Also, I think you've got the gradations of the words wrong.  One 
> > can be a killer without being a murderer (a soldier, for         
> > example).  But one cannot be a murderer without being a killer.  
> > For someone to murder they've had to kill.

> >>a_svirn:
> Yes. That's what makes Draco such a poor soldier for any cause, 
> Voldemort's or Dumbledore's alike. He has no objection to murdering 
> people so long that he doesn't have to do or witness actual        
> killing. Poisoning, plotting and planning for others to do the job –
> that's more in his line. 

Betsy Hp:
But he still couldn't do it.  I'm not getting this line of argument 
a_svirn.  To be a murderer you have to kill.  If Draco is 
uncomfortable with killing than he's uncomfortable with murder.

Betsy Hp (agrees with Magpie! <g>)