[HPforGrownups] Re: Grey!Snape and Character Growth

[Bart Lidofsky]

No: HPFGUIDX 162878

wynnleaf wrote:
> Having read much of this discussion I'd like to comment on some 
> problems I see with a Grey!Snape who ultimately comes through for
> Dumbledore's side.

	Here is a basic outline, as far as I see it:

	1) Dumbledore had made it absolutely clear that he trusted Snape.

	2) He also, indirectly, makes it absolutely clear that he is not about 
to tell anybody WHY he trusts Snape, except for some indirect details 
(which, as we have found out, requires additional knowledge to make 
sense out of).

	3) It would take far more time than I have to find the canon evidence, 
but it SEEMS that, if everybody in the Order got together and compared 
notes, they MIGHT have enough information to deduce WHY Dumbledore 
trusted Snape. Certainly, from a storyline point of view, that would 
work out very well, regardless of which side Snape was on.

	4) Harry is the hero, not Snape. Therefore, once again in terms of 
storyline, we can take a look at three possibilities: Snape is solidly 
on the side of the Tommy Riddle, Snape is solidly AGAINST Tommy Riddle, 
or Snape is not solidly on either side (note that canon evidence very 
strongly implies that the Death Eaters can be handled without Lord 
Deathflight around). Note: Looking how corny "Lord Deathflight" looks, 
I'm REALLY glad JKR chose "Voldemort". Has anybody considered "Morty"?

	5) Snape having to choose sides is bad for the storyline as a whole, 
because it focuses too much on Snape and not enough on Harry. Especially 
since it's been so heavily set up for WORMTAIL to switch sides 
(especially since such a switch, at least according to foreshadowing, 
would be loyalty to HARRY, not emnity to Morty or choosing good, or 
anything like that).

	6) I am therefore of the opinion that, unless JKR has bit off more than 
she can chew, Snape either always was Voldermort's man, or he never was 
(at least from Book 1).

	5) Dumbledore is supposed to be pretty much the most powerful, most 
effective, most skilled wizard around (of course, the incompetence in 
the WW is pretty impressive, as well). There are implications (but no 
more than implications) that, had Dumbledore been so inclined, he could 
have had for himself a level of power that Voldemort craves, without 
even making major waves. Now, given the above, he was either right about 
Snape, or so wrong as to have shown more than incompetence, but 
malfeasance, as well.

	6) However, the only way I can see Dumbledore being wrong is if he is 
much less than he has built up as being. The only literarilly (is that a 
word?) satisfying way I can see this being done is if JKR pulls a TOTAL 
switch; that Harry has been seeing everything from a prejudiced point of 
view, that Voldemort is good, not evil, and that he has been on the 
wrong side all along; in other words, the Jacques Derrida version. But, 
frankly, I don't really see her as being deconstructionist.

	7) Therefore, I don't see any satisfactory way the story can end in the 
next volume without Snape being 100% against Voldemort. However, he has 
been always portrayed in a rather negative way in the stories. Thus, my 
"Evil but allied" label. I think that is the key. From the stories, I 
believe that Snape is NOT a good person, on an absolute basis. But, on a 
relative basis, he is far less evil than Voldemort, and would not want 
to live in a world where Voldemort was victorious. I would go as far to 
say that the last statement is literal; that he would rather die than 
live in a world where Voldemort was victorious. And I think that THIS is 
the reason why Dumbledore trusts him completely; remember, one of the 
themes of the series is that there are things that are worse than death. 
And one of Voldemort's weaknesses is that he does not understand that 
anybody could believe this.

	8) I am going to once again harp on final conflict in HPB between Snape 
and Harry. If you look at what Snape is saying, he is giving Harry a set 
of instructions on the skills he is going to need to come out 
victorious. An evil Snape would have the attitude, "Harry is so stupid 
he couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on 
the heel." A good Snape would have the attitude, "This is my last chance 
to give Harry the information; I can't make it too obvious, and, if I 
get him angry enough, maybe he'll even listen to it this time."  Now 
which version sounds like the calculating Snape that we have come to 
know and love/hate? To me, the second. That's his standard teaching 
method, after all.

	My guess as how this will pan out in Book 7? Harry will be doing most 
of the work, but, several times in the book, he will catch a lucky 
break, that will not save the day, but will give him the opportunity to 
do so (for example, if he is tied up, there will be a shard of glass 
nearby, which he can use to cut the ropes if he can accio it without 
voice or wand). He will discover, by book's end, that Snape was 
responsible for these lucky breaks.

	Bart