Snape and Umbridge and abuse again WAS: Re: Bad Writing? (was: JKR and the boys)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 162928

Alla:
> 
> Oh, that's just you know - the understandable revenge. After all 
> teacher should be allowed to exercise revenge on those weaker than 
> him. :)
> 
> How about threatening to kill student's toad? How about assigning 
> the detention to that student to make him **cut toads* ( 
> paraphrase)? Nah, that is just what Snape needed to be done at that 
> point and that is just lucky coincidence for him that **Neville** of 
> all people, whose pet is toad and who is terrified of Snape as it 
> is, was serving detention under Snape. Subtlety of the master of 
> psychological abuse indeed as far as I am concerned, Umbridge is far 
> less elegant than Severus dear, even if she goes much further in 
> physical abuse land than him IMO.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/148046
> 
> Alla,
> 
> who maybe one day will understand the argument how the fact that 
> there are much worse abusers than Snape in both real world and 
> fiction makes Snape not just **lesser** abuser, but not abuser at 
> all.
>
Carol responds:
Snape did not threaten to poison Neville's toad. He threatened to test
the potion on him without mentioning poison. He also knew perfectly
well that Hermione was helping Neville with his potion. It's only
after Snape saw that the potion was green and therefore correctly made
that he mentioned that Trevor might be poisoned, at a time when he
knew perfectly well that Neville would shrink to a tadpole, and he had
the antidote to restore him in his pocket. He wanted Neville to follow
directions and understand the consequences, and he rightly believed
that Hermione's "help" wasn't helping him at all. (It's she, not
Neville, who lost points for Gryffindor.) Granted, Snape's "tough
love" approach didn't work well for Neville, but it was a desperation
measure after all those melted cauldrons. What *would* make Neville
learn the consequences of not following directions if melted cauldrons
and docked points didn't?

Regarding the horned toads, they're not toads at all but lizards, and
they were already dead. Neville, being a pureblood, would have known
that toads (and frogs and lizards) of all kinds were used as potions
ingredients. It's just a fact of wizarding  education, like being
forced to face your Boggart and be attacked by Grindylows in your DADA
exam or dealing with dangerous beasts in COMC. And look at the dangers
that the students face after they leave the school: a Hogwarts
education has to prepare them for that harsh world or it's no
education at all. "Mean teachers"  toughen you up so that you can face
Death Eaters and Dementors without falling to pieces. (Teachers who
make you write lines in your own blood are another matter; Umbridge is
a power-hungry sadist, but I think that even she is under the delusion
that she's helping the "children" by telling them that they're not in
danger.)

As for Snape as a "lesser" abuser, I thought that was your position:
his abuse, as you call it, is less than Umbridge's, so in your view
wouldn't he be a "lesser abuser"? 

Carol, confused by Alla's confusion