Gringotts/ Malfoy Manor and Re: format of the book 7 title

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 163102

Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Gringotts / Malfoy Manor 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/163094

Ceridwen:
>However, there was something for Harry to inherit when Sirius died,
>so the accounts must not be forfeit, even if they're frozen. Sirius
>was in Azkaban for twelve years, and the account was held. That's
>longer than real life banks might hold things - I think the limit is

Bart:
> Only if the bank cannot find the owner. They knew EXACTLY where 
Sirius was, and, after all, if he got kissed, there WERE potential 
heirs. How many crimes do you know of where part of the penalty is a 
fine of everything you own?


Ceridwen:
The only crime I know of that takes what you own is drug trafficking, 
and then only what you used for the trafficking: private plane, car, 
house/land, etc.  That doesn't mean there isn't something else, it 
just means this is all I know about.  I was mistakenly thinking of 
the Feds, or in this case the Ministry, possibly watching activity on 
an account to try and apprehend a criminal.  If a bank sees an 
account not active, and Sirius's account would not be active during 
his imprisonment from the little we get from the books, I was also 
saying that real life banks I know of would have closed the account 
for seven years' inactivity and the money would have reverted to the 
state, or heirs if any are listed on the account or found through a 
search, after seven years (presumed dead).

Of course, there was a lot of talk in 2001-2002 about the possibility 
of freezing binLaden's assets, and later the same discussion about 
Saddam Hussein's, despite heirs.

Once Sirius escaped from Azkaban, the bank did not know exactly where 
he was and neither did the Ministry.  Why not shut it down then?  Or 
freeze it?  Or put a watch on activity, which they apparently did not 
do?  I think Sydney had it right in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/163087, and the 
goblins do not cooperate with the Ministry except in extraordinary 
circumstances.


Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: format of the book 7 title 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/163086

Jeremiah:
> Where is the Deathly Hallow and/or what is the Deathly Hallow?  
Maybe "WHO" is the Deathly Hallow, since we can see that Sirius 
is/was the "Prisoner of Azkaban" and there is a "Goblet of Fire" and 
there are lots of people that make up the "Order of the Phoenix."

Ceridwen:
> Maybe it's another organization, the members of which are called 
Deathly Hallows. Or, maybe it's a place where eerie or ominious 
things have been rumored to happen. Could that be what locals call 
Godrick's Hollow nowadays? Or, maybe a special day - All Hallow's 
Evening is shortened to Hallowe'en, this may be another hallowed day.


Jeremiah:
> I seriously doubt it.
PS/SS is an object.
CoS is a place.
PoA is a person (Sirius)
GoF is an object.
OotP is a group (so, I can see where you were going with that 
thinking)
HBP is a person (Snape)

Ceridwen:
So, you're suggesting a pattern in the titles?  One and four are 
objects, two and five are either place or group, three and six are 
people, so seven should be on a level with one and six and be a 
thing?  Why not change the variable on the second round of sixes and 
have one/four and three/six be variable while two-five remains static?

Jeremiah:
> What we know is Deathly means: os or pertaining to death. Hallow 
has an interresting meaning: a sacred object created through ritual. 
What do we know that is "Of Death" and is also an "Object (folloing 
the whole "proper name" thing) created through ritual?" It's a 
Horcrux.

Ceridwen:
It's possible we're supposed to be *deathly* afriad when we hear or 
read that title, but to tell you the truth, I'm not.  I rather like 
it.  Since this whole discussion has been going on, I've been 
thinking, and at the moment, I think the title means "Hallows Unto 
Death".  Not an offering to death, but a place where you could very 
easily die.  Or, conversely, people or things that could very easily 
kill you.  I think we all agree that "Hallows" has to be a noun - a 
person, place or thing - since it is modified by "Deathly".

What we don't know is what JKR will do with this.  She could mean 
anything, from the site of the last battle where (*fingers crossed*) 
Harry will defeat LV decisively, to a group in the Ministry that has 
an even more secret mission than the Unspeakables, to the horcruxes.  
She has played the "Purloined Letter" with us too many times, fooling 
us with clues that are obvious (to her, and to us once we've read the 
book), to discount that she will be so transparent.  She may mean to 
be, she may just see this as a poetic way of saying horcruxes.

So, we don't know if the correct definition of "Hallows" is a sacred 
object created through ritual.  First, we don't know that the sacred 
object is created through ritual at all, or if it became sacred by 
being the site, or at the site, of centuries of the building of 
sacred power...

Or, of magic.  In this case, Hogwarts itself could be a Hallow, or 
Hallowed Place as grounds, the castle could be a Hallow, or Hallowed 
Object.  Godrick's Hollow could be a Hallowed Place because of what 
happened there: not just the deaths of James and Lily, but the 
vaporization of Voldemort, and the activation of the prophecy 
foretelling that One would come who could vanquish the Dark Lord.  
Many if not all cultures venerate places where such auspicious things 
have happened, marking them in some way, with altars or holy 
buildings, making pilgrimages to the sites, and so on.

So, the Hallows may be the places, or one place with niches like a 
catacombs, where LV hid the horcruxes he did not entrust to frail 
mortal henchmen, or where he is now putting them because the potion 
in the cave did indeed alert him that someone had tried to drink it, 
and he is scrambling to get the remaining pieces of his soul and 
their containers into a safe new place.

Jeremiah:
> The title can read: Harry Potter and the Horcruxes. (yes, that is 
the plural... and I still want it to be Horcruxides... just like 
ephemerus is ephemerides... because it makes me laugh... [forgive my 
spelling]).

Ceridwen:
I thought it would be "horcruces", or "horcruci", but by canon, as 
you say, it's "horcruxes".  *shrug* Common usage, probably.

Off-topic:  So, if "ephemerides" is the plural of "ephemerus", then 
is "tides" the plural of "tus"?  ;)  BTW, I do know what an ephemeris 
is, I have the NASA ephemerides pages on my list of favorites, so 
that was a joke.

Ceridwen.