DD and Snape /Re: Regressed Harry

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 163178

> Alla:
> 
> No, all that Dumbledore has to do IMO is to tell Snape - think what 
> you wish about James Potter and his son, but don't you dare treat 
> him other than decently, otherwise you will, I don't know be fired 
> ASAP. I have strong suspicion that Snape will understand perfectly 
> that. 

Pippin:

Right.

Snape was supposed to do that and at the same time pretend that
he didn't take Harry seriously so that he would have an excuse
to offer Voldemort for not killing Harry. Dumbledore had
therefore to discount any incidents that happened in front of other 
people, and that leaves the occlumency lessons, where Snape 
did treat Harry decently, (though the lessons themselves
require Harry to relive humiliating experiences) at least until 
Harry abused Snape's trust.

> Pippin:
> > What part of "some wounds are too deep for the healing"
> > is hard to understand?
> 
> Alla:
> 
> The part where it is somehow relevant to Dumbledore being able to 
> force Snape to treat Harry more or less decently. If you believe 
> that Snape wounds somehow give him a pass to do what he does, well, 
> I do not.

Pippin:
It was relevant to the reason that Snape lost his temper and threw
Harry out of his office. I can't hypnotize myself into thinking 
any threat could have forced Snape to keep his temper under those 
circumstances.

If Dumbledore had had to follow through on your threat and sack
Snape, then there would have been no one at Hogwarts to warn the
Order and save Harry and his friends from the DE's. There'd have
been no one to save Katie or Dumbledore from the ring curse, and
maybe no one to make all those potions Hermione was taking at the
end of OOP. I'd say there was something seriously wrong with 
Dumbledore's priorities if that had happened. 

> Alla:
> 
> So, Fake!Moody abuses worse, much worse and that does not make 
Snape an abuser why? What Catlady said - minus one does not become 
positive number, even though minus one millions is so much more 
negative.

Pippin:
But the value of the zero point is arbitrary. Negative degrees Celsius can 
be positive degrees Fahrenheit. The kids have to be exposed to real 
jinxes in DADA class  because  they need practical experience if they 
expect to survive once they leave Hogwarts. They can't have their
first practical experience when their lives or their futures are at
stake, or their first practical experience is liable to be their last.

They have to be exposed to real jerks for the same reason. Wizards
aren't honest with themselves about the way they treat their 
inferiors. They like to think they're noble and beneficent beings,
they fill their textbooks and their newspapers with lies, so how
are Muggleborns, who are already thinking they've landed in
some kind of fairytale wonderworld, going to grasp the truth if
Dumbledore doesn't rub their noses in it?

Umbridge thought sweet little children shouldn't be exposed 
to such dangerous magic. You think sweet little Harry and 
Neville shouldn't be exposed to Snape. Your privilege, but 
I'm glad for their sake you're not headmistress at 
Hogwarts. :)

Alla:
 Neville seemed pretty distressed to me when he came back 
> with frog gut or as we now know *toad gut* under his fingernails.

Pippin:
This is the same narrator who told us Harry's parents died in a car
crash. I have no doubt Harry thought it was toad guts, which
JKR may have changed frog guts to make it crystal clear that it was
Harry's point of view. If Snape can be wrong about kappas,
surely Harry can be wrong about lizards.

As we know,  JKR receives zillions of letters questioning her
about every aspect of the books. We can bet this matter was 
brought to her or her editor's attention.

In any case, JKR obviously passed up a chance to change 'horned
toad' to something less ambiguous, and the logical conclusion 
would be that it says exactly what she wants it to say. 

Alla: 
> And that was repeated many times, but having the teacher as your 
> boggart seems rather strong personification of the child's distress.

Pippin:
I ask again, why is this significant when Hermione's boggart is
also a teacher? 

Alla:
> 
> Thinking the worst of the child before you got to know him - 
> **that** is prejudice indeed IMO, thinking the worst of your abuser 
> **after** you interacted with him is the only possible, realistic 
> way of thinking IMO. What Harry thinks of Snape is triggered by what 
> Snape did to Harry, so I do not see how it can be called prejudice.

Pippin:
Harry went into Snape's first class already thinking that Slytherins
looked a hard lot, and that Snape always favored his own students.
He also believed that Snape looking at him had made his scar hurt
and that all dark wizards came from Slytherin. 

He'd have been surprised if Snape had treated him decently, just
like Slughorn was surprised that a Muggleborn could be an 
outstanding witch.

Sluggie didn't think he was prejudiced, of course. But he was.

Harry doesn't think he's prejudiced. But he never asked himself
if there could be any other reason for Snape's behavior except
that Snape chose to hate him, even now when he's been told 
there are others. 

> Pippin:
> > But IMO, the situation can be resolved in one of two ways.
> > Either  Harry will be vindicated in his current belief that
> > he was right to think the worst of Snape from the beginning,
> > or DH will see him realize that his prejudiced mind has not
> > only refused to give Snape the benefit of the doubt, it has
> > on many occasions refused even to acknowledge that room
> > for doubt existed.
> >
> 
> Alla:
> 
> We shall see of course. I am going with Harry was right to think the 
> worst of Snape from the beginning, but will forgive him regardless. 

Pippin:
Why should he forgive the murder of Dumbledore? I am going with
Snape is innocent and one day Harry will realize it. 

Alla:
> And one day I maybe understand why exactly Harry was supposed to 
> give Snape the benefit of the doubt after all that Snape did to him.

Pippin:
Because he is supposed to recognize when his personal feelings
and his previous experiences could be distorting his judgement. 

Alla: 
> I mean, even after Snape saves his life in PS/SS dear Albus steps in 
> and pretty much tells the kid that it was only because Snape felt 
> indebted to James and wanted to hate James' memory in piece.

Pippin:
Where does Dumbledore say "only because" ? 

>> Alla:.
> 
> But I do find it to not be very believable that Harry's rage or hurt 
> or temper dissappeared completely in HBP, no matter what triggered 
> it, you know?
> 
> I mean, if his hurt was from Dumbledore's reactions, does it mean 
> that after him smashing DD possessions in OOP, he has no problems 
> with DD whatsoever anymore?

Pippin:
Of course he still has problems with DD! He questions Dumbledore's
judgement as he never did before. Even before the end of HBP he's 
convinced himself that Dumbledore is an idiot to trust Snape 
(though he also firmly holds the incompatible belief that Albus
Dumbledore is the wisest person who ever lived.)

And he still has problems with his temper, mugging Mundungus 
and all that. But he is able to keep his temper under control most 
of the time and channel his energy towards preparing to  fight 
Voldemort. He keeps wanting to argue with Dumbledore and not 
doing so because he's afraid if he does Dumbledore won't continue 
his training. Remember, in OOP Harry wanted to fight and he wasn't 
being allowed to. 

But CAPSLOCK! Harry was the aberration. The strength of
Harry's feelings temporarily outgrew his ability to calm them.
Harry didn't get over his anger or his grief, he just matured enough 
to deal with them again. 

Pippin