Bella and Umbridge - Power

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 147639

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" 
> <gbannister10@> wrote: 
> > Geoff:
> > ...
> > 
> > They both appear to treat them as if they were not any higher
> > than  about Year 1 in school and speak to them condescendingly
> > and patronisingly. (Snip)
> > 
> > Curious the similar ways in which they treat the young people.
> > I  can understand Umbridge because she appears to be a typical
> > spinster  maiden aunt - .... But Bellatrix does not seem the 
> > type to react on the same way.
> > 
> > Any views out there?
> 
> Tonks: 
>
> ...edited...
> 
> Let's look at Umbridge first and "get her out of the way". ;-)  
> I see her as a typical bureaucrat that flaunts her power because
> she can. She is a sadistic person. It has nothing to do with the
> age of the person she is addressing, it has to do with power. She
> would treat anyone that she was in a position of power over in 
> the same way. ...
> 
> I see Bella as more like Snape, except it is clear which side she
> is on.  She is a sadist and enjoys inflicting pain on others. Why?  
> Many she has a subconscious need to over come an unhappy childhood. 
> Doing to others what was done to her in an attempt to master the 
> situation. (Oh pardon me.. the therapist in me just came out 
> there.)  
> 
> Bella loves to pull the rug out from others. Her motivation is 
> not so much power as it is the thrill of seeing others in pain, 
> emotional or physical. LV on the other hand uses torture as a 
> means to an end. For Bella it is an end in itself.
> 
> I have to go now.. can explore this more later.
> 
> Tonks_op
>

bboyminn:

While I don't necessarily disagree with Tonks_op, I think she is
ignoring an aspect of their characters.

Bella is very much about power, but it is subtly different than
Umbridges take on power. Again, this is very subtle and I hope I can
even remotely explain the difference.

They are both about /control/ through the application of power, but in
one case, it is 'I control you because I have power over you', and in
the other, it is 'I control you because you are in/under my power'. Of
course, in both cases, the flagrant and excessive use of power is a
cover for a deep seated fear of being powerless. 

If Umbridge had truly been confident in her 'power', she would have
never feared Harry enough to send Dementors to destroy him. That was
an unconscionable act motivated by the fear of the loss of power, and
the loss of control of her own destiny.

In Bella's case, she puts people under the Cruciatus Curse, and while
they are under the curse, she controls them completely. In a sense,
she holds their lives in her hands and that is a great power. When she
releases the Curse, they will do what she wants, at this point she has
the power to control them because they fear the pain that will come if
they don't obey. 

I think Bella gets a trememdous thrill out of this kind of forced
power. I don't think it is so much the pleasure of given pain to
others as it is the immense pleasure of controlling others so
completely, of her being so powerful while they being so helpless.
Each time she tortures someone, she is once again filled with this
sense of complete control. 

In Umbridge's case, it is more the power of authority. In a sense, 'I
am your superior and your master, you must obey me. I have the full
force of the Ministry of Magic behind me, and all the consequences
that this implies'. Umbridge takes great pleasure in the assertion of
her authority. She is corrupt in the way the all (or most) powerful
people are corrupt. By that I mean, that power and authority have
become her gods; they stand above everything, above ethics, morality,
justice, fair play. Nothing has value but power and the authority to
use it. 

She weilds her authority without mercy and demands unswerving
obedience. But, what is she without that authority; she is nothing?
So, she clings desperately to her authority, and the absolute sense of
power it brings. She so greatly fears the loss of that authority and
the power it brings, that like all evil tyrants, she will stop at
nothing to hold on to it. She will even go so far as to torture
students, if it means absolute adherence to her authority.

Of course, poor Umbridge, she is so misguided and corrupted by power
that she fails to see that the tyranncial assertion of authority
doesn't bring obedience but rebellion. Her continued harassment of
Harry only set him more fiercely against her, and ultimately, like all
evil tyrants, assures her downfall. Though, I admit, she didn't fall
nearly as far as she should have.

There is little hope for Bella, as she hasn't simply lost her
perspective, she is completely and evilly deranged. Umbridge on the
other hand, does still have some trace of normalicy in her. Of course,
it's hidden very deeply.

We have to accept that each nasty character in the story can't have
their plotlines and evil actions accounted for and resolved. That
simply doesn't happen in real life, and there simply isn't enough book
left for that. So, I say quick easy aside karmic solutions are all we
are left with.

Here is my total fantasy scenario for Umbridge's comeuppance. At some
point, it should become clear to the Ministry that their hope for
survival rest on Harry, and then they will be more willing to
cooperate with him /on his terms/. Somewhere in the course of Harry
securing that assistance of the Ministry (long story) Umbridge will
corner Harry and try to assert her authority over him. 

Harry will turn to her and point out that she admitted to unforgivable
crimes in front of witnesses (Dementor attack on Harry), and that he
has several witnesses to her other crimes (cutting quill) and if she
doesn't keep her fat mouth shut and stay in her place, he will destroy
her. Intially she will bluster and fluster, but when she sees the
Harry is dead serious, and fully capable, she will have no choice but
to back down.

I say that this is Karmic retribution. Umbridge still has her position
of power, but at the same time she is powerless; she is subserviant to
Harry. That would have to be crushing for Umbridge, to still be in a
position of power and authority, but to, at the same time, not be able
to excersize that power. It just sounds right to me, and should only
take a couple of pages in the book. 

As far as Bella, there is no hope for her. It's back to prison or
death for her.

Just a few fanciful thoughts.
Steve/bboyminn