Role of ESE in Hero's Quest / McGuffins & Horcruxes

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 147667

> >>Betsy Hp:
> JKR has given us the McGuffins that are the horcruxes, but I       
> suspect that they will be of secondary importance. 

> >>Nora:
> Isn't the classic definition of McGuffin a plot element/item which
> everyone wants but has no significance in and of itself...<snip>?

> >>Neri:
> <snip>
> One of the main reasons I'm hoping for something like Horcrux!    
> Harry is that it will prevent the Horcruxes from being standard   
> plot coupons, and Book 7 from being a standard collect-the-coupons 
> quest.
  
> >>Pippin:
> <snip>
> But as for  storied objects themselves, of course they are of no   
> genuine importance -- how can they be? Fabulous treasures are     
> fabulous only until they have been found. Then they are mere      
> possessions,  worth no more than someone is willing to pay for    
> them.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Exactly.  And, from what we've seen, the horcruxes will become 
worthless junk once they're destroyed.  Which is why I define them 
as McGuffins.  It doesn't really matter what they actually are, it 
matters that Harry needs to get them and Voldemort needs to protect 
them.  The excitement won't be in discovering exactly *what* the 
Ravenclaw (or Gryffindor?) horcrux is, but *how* Harry gets it.  
Sure, there will be a momentary thrill if your guess was right (it 
*was* a wand!) but that thrill won't last past the first reading.  
However, if Harry learns some major new fact about his mother in 
order to track down that horcrux, well that will be something with 
real meat to it.  At least in my opinion.

> >>Pippin:
> <snip>
> Not to say the horcruxes won't have symbolic value. I think,      
> though JKR has done her best to cloud the issue, that the 
> four missing horcruxes correspond to the four houses, and Harry's
> quest to find and destroy them will be intertwined with Ron and    
> Hermione's quest to unite the Houses (as Head Boy and Head Girl.) 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
And *that* would count as a payoff of a true hero's quest to my 
mind.  Uniting what has so long been divided... Dumbledore would 
weep. Plus, what a fantastic example of Harry going in a completely 
different direction than Voldemort.  Voldemort who used the 
divisions of the school to his advantage, Voldemort who uses his 
power to set families against each other, Voldemort who could never, 
ever, turn to someone else for any sort of assistance.

I fully expect Harry to have to choose to trust, to rely on, someone 
outside himself and his inner circle to complete his task. Luna 
Lovegood, Zacharias Smith, and Draco Malfoy spring to mind, in order 
of escalating difficulty.  Though it'd be interesting if instead of 
Luna, the Ravenclaw connection was either Cho or Marietta.

> >>Jen R.:
> Harry destroying the horcruxes makes the defeat of Voldemort
> possible, but it will be a change inside Harry which is the
> final 'weapon' handed by Voldemort to Harry and the cause of the
> defeat. I picture this being an internal battle similar to the
> external brother wand confrontation. So Voldemort will in a sense
> defeat himself and fulfill the prophecy he set in motion. Simple,
> clean--I'm rather attached to this ending <g>.

Betsy Hp:
I like this idea too, Jen.  For all of its action, the Harry Potter 
series is quite an internal story.  And what was interesting to me 
in the "brother wand moment" was that Harry chose to stand and fight 
even while knowing he was most likely going to die.  Which ties into 
his "walking into the arena rather than being dragged" thought in 
HBP.  Which is why I think the act of finding the horcruxes will be 
more important than the actual horcruxes themselves.

> >>Neri:
> <snip>
> The other alternative would be what Betsy seems to suggest, that   
> the Horcruxes would be reduced to mere structure, an arbitrary     
> excuse to take the plot of Book 7 away from Hogwarts and propel it 
> forward while the important part would be the rather unrelated    
> process of Harry untangling himself from Voldemort. And returning 
> to the title of the thread, I also don't see how a standard ESE,   
> however BANGy, can save the Horcruxes from being poorly written    
> plot coupons.

Betsy Hp:
Oh, I don't think there will be two unrelated story-lines going on.  
There will probably be symbolic and thematic value in the horcruxes, 
as Pippin stated above.  But the the horcruxes in and of themselves 
are really meaningless.  Just as the "one ring" could have been 
the "one bracelet" or the "one necklace" or the "one garden hoe".  
Also, I don't see the horcruxes as an excuse to send Harry out on a 
physical journey.  As I said before, the horcruxes could all be 
stuck in and around Hogwarts for all we know.

What *will* be important, I think, is Harry acting in a manner 
completely unlike Voldemort.  Using harmony where Voldemort uses 
chaos, and trust where Voldemort uses suspicion.  I'm expecting some 
hard choices for Harry, moments where he can take the Voldemort 
path, or his own path while on the great Horcrux Hunt.  Which leads 
us to the title of this cartoon <g>.

I've come to realize that I behave horribly like a weather vane on 
the issue of an ESE in book 7.  I flip back and forth depending on 
the current point being made.  However, the one thing that every 
Heroic Quest needs is a moment of temptation for the hero, a moment 
where he can choose to give up or give in.  And JKR seems to have 
taken that sort of moment away from Harry.  I think Dumbledore 
specifically says at one point that Voldemort has made it so Harry 
will never be tempted by what he offers.  Which seems to cut out an 
excellent (and cliched, I'll admit, so maybe that's the reason) 
dramatic moment.

But could someone else offer that moment?  If say, Lupin is ESE, 
could he sway Harry to maybe give up the fight?  (I cannot see Harry 
ever wanting to *join* Voldemort.) Or could an ESE!Character 
encourage Harry to not trust someone he should be trusting? (Boy, 
would a twin fit *that* bill! <g>)

Betsy Hp