Role of ESE in Hero's Quest / McGuffins & Horcruxes / House Unity

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 147748

> >>Quick Silver:
> Besty could you explain what you mean by "House unity"? I've      
> always had a problem understanding what people mean when they say 
> that. Do they mean the end of the house system or some sort of    
> ideal Hogwarts where no bullying and name calling occurs? I know   
> that the sorting hat and Dumbledore pushed for it but they always 
> seemed vague on it.

Betsy Hp:
I'd love to! <g>  I actually like the House system and hope that the 
end of the series won't see a Hogwarts without its Ravenclaws, 
Hufflepuffs, Gryffindors or Slytherins. (I've got a bit of a 
personal issue with this, I'll admit.  My college used to have a 
house system and it was done away with after I graduated.  Which 
means that freshmen no longer have an upperclassman roommate to show 
them the ropes, that age group hangs with age group, and that 
several old traditions no longer have a place.)  

However, I do think there's been an unhealthy seperation between the 
Hogwarts houses symbolized by the Slytherins' outsider status. I 
like what Jen D. says here on an unrelated topic:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/147714
> >>Jen D.:
> The first thing that came to my mind is that Hogwarts is the site 
> of the only place that the 4 great wizards and witches were ever   
> united (for a time) and when they were united, they must have been 
> a powerful group.  Perhaps some of their power has remained. This 
> could be the "ancient" magic or powers in addition to the ancient 
> magic.

I think there *is* a power to a united Hogwarts, and that's why the 
Sorting Hat has twice called for (OotP on page, HBP off page) the 
students to unite together.  The united efforts of the Hogwarts 
professors, regardless of house, turned Umbridge from a tyrant into 
an ineffective bungler.  Imagine if all the students had been united 
as well. 

I'm not expecting some sort of Hogwarts utopia though.  Just an 
ability for Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff, Slytherin and Gryffindor to 
work together.  Which is something I expect Harry will need to make 
happen in order to hunt down the remaining horcruxes.

> >>Neri:
> <snip>
> I maintain that the Horcruxes are in great danger to prove        
> worthless junk (from the literary point of view, at least) even   
> *before* they are found.
> <snip>
> Instead, JKR had Dumbledore, which is a classic Wise Old Man stock
> character, inform the hero that in order to defeat the evil        
> overlord he must locate and destroy several magical objects. The   
> identities of these objects are completely arbitrary. Their       
> magical properties are completely arbitrary. Their histories and   
> hiding places are completely arbitrary.
> <snip>
> JKR used this cheap trick in her plot, but then she went and
> "subverted" it. She gave her prophecy a central thematic value by
> involving the Choice factor. I predict, or at least I hope, that
> she'll do a similar thing with the Horcruxes.

Betsy Hp:
I've ruthlessly snipped your post, Neri, sorry.  I want to deal with 
the "stock" fantasy devices JKR has used in her story thus far.  
There's the prophecy, which I agree she rather brilliantly subverted 
by going the more interesting "MacBeth" or "Oedipus Rex" route where 
the prophecy only has power if it is believed.

There's Dumbledore who has the earmarks of the "Wise Old Man" but 
gets subverted, I believe, by having him come so close to, and 
sometimes hitting out and out, failure in just about every book.  I 
picture him as hanging by his fingernails most of the time.

And finally there are the horcruxes.  The reason I don't consider 
them "plot coupons" is that I don't think they really fill that 
function.  The horcruxes don't *give* Harry anything.  Which goes 
against the video game analogy, I believe.  They *take away* 
something from Voldemort.  And they're a perfect reflection of 
Voldemort neurosis.  

> >>Jen R.:
> What I'm saying is the objects aren't arbitrary to Voldemort, nor
> are the hiding places. Taking myself completely out of the story as
> the writer of that article did makes practically any plot sound
> absurd! JKR did 'make it so' as author/god, but she also tried to
> back it up and give it a viable reason for being there. Maybe the
> reasoning appeals to me more than someone else because I thought  
> she did a damn good job creating a psychological case study to
> underscore Voldemort's choices. And I think it's very possible LV's
> irrational obsessions could be taken even further, i.e. the gleam.

Betsy Hp:
I totally agree with this.  It's all about Voldemort's weaknesses.  
He's a majorly powerful wizard.  More powerful than Harry, as we've 
seen demonstrated by his early grasp and control of magic.  And yet 
he *purposefully* weakens himself by splitting his soul.  And he 
sets himself up to be taken down by anyone who doesn't share his 
same fears,  hiding the locket in a dark place surrounded by death 
because those things scare him.  (And I must say the idea of 
Voldemort being scared of the dark gives him a certain... 
sympathetic maybe? edge.  I can see him as a scared little boy, 
forever waiting for his mom to come make him safe.)

I see the horcruxes as McGuffins because in the end what they are 
exactly won't matter, I think.  I don't think this makes a weak 
story.  On the contrary, that a master story-teller like Alfred 
Hichcock used them so often suggests that McGuffins can be an 
important ingredient to a well-told story.  The very fact that the 
object itself is unimportant suggests that they aren't plot 
coupons.  It won't be the having, it'll be the getting that makes a 
difference.

> >>Quick Silver:
> Actually I'm not sure that Draco is going to be that difficult for
> Harry to trust. Harry currently has a huge advantage over Draco in
> that he saw Draco's little scene on the Tower with Dumbledore. I
> wouldn't be surprised if Smith is harder to trust then Draco (I'm a
> little of a Draco pusher).

Betsy Hp:
Hmm, I think Harry would easily accept a broken and contrite Draco.  
But what if Draco isn't all that broken?  What if Draco doesn't come 
on bended knee, begging to make amends, but rather full of attitude 
and knowledge of the difference he could make?  I prefer the idea of 
an unbroken Draco, and he's someone I think Harry will find a bit 
challenging to accept.  Though of course he will! <g>  

Betsy Hp