Teaching Styles

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 147793


Shaun:

<HUGE SNIP>
> Snape's classes - in my views - are an example of a tradition that 
> does work for a lot of students (and I've seen it work) 
> though when it's wrong for a student, it may be very wrong - as it 
> seems to me to be for Neville at least in the early 
> books.
> 
> But guess what - the class cannot revolve around Neville 
Longbottom. 
> He's one child in classes of about twenty (at least I 
> think that's what the numbers show). His needs shouldn't be ignored 
> (I really believe that) but we don't really see any 
> evidence anywhere (except of Harry's fictional extra potions 
lessons 
> masking occlumency) that much effort is made to provide extra help 
at 
> Hogwarts. If this is a flaw, it's a flaw in the school in general, 
> not a flaw in Snape's classes specifically.
<SNIP>

Alla:

I just want to address this point, because maybe I misinterpreted 
your position in our past discussions or maybe not, we shall see.

Oh, by the way, please please if you feel that I am misinterpreting 
your position now, correct me, it is certainly not intentional, if 
this happens.

I was under impression that your position is that as long as Snape 
teaching style works for the majority of the students and does not 
work for few of them, the teacher should have no problem whatsoever 
and the student should deal with it - find another teacher, transfer 
to another school, something like that. ( Again, I am not sure if you 
said it in those exact words, this is the summary, which I felt was 
your position on it, I could be wrong)

But now you are saying that Neville's needs should not be ignored, so 
I guess you have the certain line of mistreatment of, I don't know 
one or two students ( Harry and Neville in our situation), which if 
crossed by Snape would place him as "bad teacher". Is that correct?

If this is indeed correct, my question to you will be where you place 
the limit?

How much Snape has to mistreat Neville and Harry before you would 
consider him a bad teacher and NOT simply that his methods do not 
work for Neville and Harry?

Let's suppose that after much discussed "Trevor potions lesson" 
Neville would have gotten so upset that he would have committed 
suicide and left a note that  the sole reason for his suicide would 
have been that he cannot handle Snape anymore. Would you say then 
that Snape should have been removed from Hogwarts right away or would 
you say that it is Neville's problem that his psyche was too fragile 
in the first place?

Keep in mind that I am not saying that Neville as he is now would 
have done it and as we see he did not, but the fact that Neville 
found inner strength to deal with the abusive teacher ( my opinion of 
course, nothing more) does not make the severity of Snape's actions 
any less to me.

Let's suppose that corporal punishment in its traditional form would 
have been still allowed at Hogwarts ( at least Dumbledore was smart 
enough to stop that IMO) and Snape decided to whip Harry severely 
for  not addressing him "Sir" or "Professor", moreover Snape 
deliberately abused that punishment and gave Harry more blows that it 
is allowed to the point that Harry lost consciousness. Do you think 
that would have warranted Dumbledore firing Snape on the spot or 
still Snape should be allowed to continue teaching other students?

What is the extent of the free reign you would allow Snape over few 
students, if it is a given that he is a good teacher for everybody 
else? I mean, I still think that we have no definite proof that he is 
a good teacher for everybody else, except Umbridge calling class 
advanced, but let's suppose I buy it for the sake of the argument.

Magpie:
<SNIP>
> So yeah, my point here isn't to say that Snape's a great guy and 
> Harry can't see it but the Slytherins can...it's just to say that 
> whatever Rowling's personal judgment is on Snape as a teacher I do 
> think she acknowledges the difference between Snape having power 
and 
> Snape abusing power and is almost interested in the line crossing

Alla:

Well, personally, I think that besides many interviews where JKR said 
what kind of teacher she thinks Snape is, the loudest statement about 
whether he is good as a teacher was made at the end of HBP, because 
Snape is no longer at Hogwarts. I mean, he is no longer in Hogwarts 
for some other reasons we all know, but I highly doubt that Snape 
will ever return there and that means that new generations of 
Hogwarts teachers will not longer have to study with him.

I mean, maybe he will return at the end and I will have to eat a 
crow, but for some reason I think that the end of HBP 
did "irreparable damage to his teaching career" to quote JKR on what 
Snape did to poor Remus (loved that answer by the way - not that I 
was in any doubt what was Snape outing Remus)

Magpie:
> If he was no good as a teacher at all I don't think he'd work the 
> way he needs to work in the story.

Alla:

Ooooo, I completely, one hundred percent disagree on this issue. Take 
my reactions to the text - I HATE Snape's teaching, hate with the 
great deal of passion and if Hogwarts was "real", I would say Snape 
had to be fired ASAP. IMO of course.

But he works perfectly for me within the story, I absolutely think 
that the story would lost a lot without him. Why? Because the 
feelings I have about Snape are the feelings I usually have about the 
villain ( well, I used to have a love/hate feeling about this 
character, now it is just hate).

Every story like this needs a villain and Voldemort does not invoke 
even remotely close reaction I have about Snape.

It does not matter if at the end Snape's evil will be only everyday 
one ( what I describe as abusive bastard, but loyal to Dumbledore).
Without him, I would not have a villainous character in the story. I 
mean, Voldemort got better after HBP, but still not even close in my 
book.

> Amiable Dorsai:
<SNIP>
 But I've
> never had an instructor in those demanding subjects who picked out
> scapegoats, tried to make students feel worthless as a recreational
> activity, selectively enforced rules, or frothed at the mouth when
> frustrated.  
<SNIP>

Alla:

Yes, of course. I just cannot call somebody a good teacher if only 
one student is being mistreated in his class and IMO we see that 
three students are being mistreated for sure and IMO it is a pretty 
good assumption that all Gryffindors are being treated unfairly.

JMO,

Alla