Subverting Prophecies, Wisemen, Horcruxes (wasRe: Role of ESE in Hero's Quest...

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 147951

> Neri:
> As I wrote upthread, this doesn't convince me because plot coupons
> frequently come with some excuses for their existence (typically
> supplied by the Wise Old Man stock character in some kind of
> a "plot dump") and as long as these explanations are rather 
> arbitrary (this or that quirk of the mad arch-villain) it doesn't
> really give the plot coupons that much meaning.  
<big snip> 
> I'm not saying the series is old and dry. I'm just saying that what
> is needed now is some deep thematic value for at least one of the
> Horcruxes, and I expressed my belief that JKR *will* do it, the
> same way she did it with the prophecy and for very similar reasons.

Jen: I've been thinking about why the horcruxes don't seem 
completely arbitrary to me so far and then I remembered: It was JKR 
introducing the importance of a person's soul in HBP and her 
comments in a recent interview that death was a major theme in the 
story. She's said that before, in the A&E Biography interview most 
notably, but that was before HBP when the theme intensified.

For me there's already thematic importance to the horcruxes because 
they damaged Voldemort's soul in the making and we know now that's 
important in Potterverse. I honestly wasn't sure how directly JKR 
would deal with souls after OOTP; I thought the introduction of the 
Veil and the children hearing voices beyond it might be the closest 
she would come i.e. approaching the idea of a soul metaphorically 
but not directly.

This whole issue is deeper than the characterization or plot reasons 
for the horcruxes. She's saying something about the state of Harry's 
soul in relation to Voldemort's soul and that demands a very 
specific direction.

Now back to a few points from your previous post #147824:

Neri:
> It's probably no coincidence that many of us didn't like the
> Horcruxes and still try to shove them aside. I think we 
> immediately felt, even before we could formulate it as well as
> Lowe does, that there's something disappointing about them. 

Jen: I'm surprised, had no idea many people didn't care for the 
horcrux storyline. The prophecy completely threw me out of the story 
and seemed like a big dud on my first read, but not once during HBP 
did I feel that about the horcruxes. They 'fit' for me in a way that 
the prophecy didn't. But I won't argue the variety of reading 
experiences. Like I said previously the Riddle backstory for me was 
well-written and meaningful whereas more than once others have 
referred to the Voldemort evolution as 'exposition setting up Book 
7' rather than standing alone on its own merits. 

Neri:
> Yes, JKR did manage to convince me that these specific objects
> aren't arbitrary to Voldemort, but they still feel arbitrary to
> *me* as a reader. After all, real evil people are rarely obsessed
> with immortality, and even if they are, this obsession rarely 
> manifests itself in hiding objects for some hero to find. This is
> why *I* as a reader get this absurd feeling that Voldemort and his
> obsession only exist so our hero can have his quest. In order to 
> rectify this I expect JKR to make these objects (or at least one
> of them) meaningful to me as the reader, and not merely because
> Voldy like them. If she can do that I wouldn't feel the plot is
> absurd, and I don't think Lowe would either.

Jen: So wouldn't that already be a subversion if most evil people 
aren't obsessed with immortality and Voldemort is? Most are trying 
to make a power grab and this particular evil overlord has become so 
twisted from his original course of purifying the wizard race he 
can't even launch a proper 'take over the world campaign' because of 
his obsessions. And his obsessions become stronger and more twisted 
every time he rips another soul piece out it looks like to me. The 
cyclical nature of his downfall has little to do with Harry's quest, 
imo. Harry may be headed on a quest, but I think the pathetic nature 
of Voldemort's existence could be meaningful in its own right with 
or without a horcrux search.

Neri:
> You wrote upthread that this is a metaphysical story of two souls
> being tied together. What better way to show Harry untangling 
> himself from Voldemort than them sharing a soul? What better way
> to make the thematic point that destroying an evil soul endangers
> your own soul? What better way to make the thematic point that
> it's only the different choices that differentiate Harry from 
> Voldemort? Many of us wondered when JKR failed to show us Tom's 
> gradual fall into Evil in HBP, but I suspect this was intended. If 
> Tom's soul is described as completely and utterly "evil", then by
> sharing it Harry would show that it isn't the soul, but the
> different *choices* that matter.

Jen: I guess the Harrycrux issue comes down to what a person can buy 
in a story more than anything else. If Harry has been sharing 
Voldemort's soul and his choices were enough to overcome that level 
of evil then he truly would be superhuman to me and not Harry the 
average kid. I think that's the way you feel about the horcruxes, 
you just don't buy them, they don't ring true, however you want to 
say it. That's how Harrycrux looks to me *at the moment* although 
I'm open to JKR writing it in a way that makes it believable. But 
right now I like that Harry is no one special but a brave kid with a 
big heart who got a raw deal, someone who wants to work his way out 
of a job as the One.

Personally I'd like to see JKR go further with Voldemort than Harry 
over the horcruxes. Harry's set up for this quest, he 'thinks he 
knows what's ahead' (paraphrase from JKR comment). I just wonder who 
Voldemort will be without his horcruxes? Not that he will feel them 
being destroyed, but what happens to a person who thinks he has this 
inpenetrable barrier around himself only to discover the gig is up? 
I mean, he's the guy who's scared of the darkness and dead bodies. 
There are several places JKR could take the horcruxes which might 
not feel formulaic to people who are despairing of a video-game 
quest in the works.

Jen R.