[HPforGrownups] Re: Teaching Styles

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 147989

> PAR wrote:
> ====it's not as if there weren't other methods, even ones that were
> not OOC for Snape.  While doing the same as Flitwick (who tolerates
> well Neville's errors), IF Snape were both a good teacher and truly
> 100% DDM, he could have done something like:

Magpie:

Yes, he could have, but I think Sean's point is that while Snape is not the 
best teacher, or a super duper teacher, and certainly not the best teacher 
for Neville, what he's doing isn't completely from outer space.  Plus, well, 
we know that Snape is not going to give Hermione a chance to earn extra 
credit by "showing off" because he's trying to discourage that too.  Snape's 
a mean teacher and what he does to Neville is what a mean teacher, not a 
nice teacher, would do.

R_K
> In regards to Snape teaching Potions well, I find HBP an interesting
> light on that.  Here we have an individual who is apparently VERY
> talented and inventive (assuming he didn't copy the improvements
> from LILLY, which is entirely possible)

Magpie:
Possible, but as of now based on very thin evidence, imo.  We know Snape is 
very talented at Potions, we've got notes in his handwriting showing his 
personality that make Harry a star, the book seems to center around the 
relationship between Harry and this unknown boy he later realizes is 
Snape...is there really any good reason to give Lily credit for Snape's 
accomplishments?

I know you're not making a serious argument for this and it's just an aside, 
but this is just one of those mysteries to me, post-HBP, why "Snape was 
copying Lily/Lily wrote the notes in the book" has become this sort of 
phantom idea that hangs over the story.  It's given much more weight and 
attention than, for instance, the opposite idea.  The only evidence we have 
of Lily being a star at Potions at all comes from Slughorn, a character 
whose most notable characteristic is the blatant bias he shows for some 
students over others, often for arbitrary reasons.  The man's spent the 
entire book insisting that *Harry* is a natural at Potions based on Snape's 
work--for all we know he did the same with Lily.  I can't help but wonder if 
the same kind of bias could make the theory that Lily was behind the HBP 
attractive--it keeps all the positive stuff with the pleasant character who 
likes Harry and makes all the things that "attracted" Harry to young Snape 
stolen.  It gets rid of the everything disturbing about the 
relationship--Harry wasn't really drawn to Snape in the form of the HBP, he 
was drawn to his mother, Lily.

R_K:
but there is no indication
> that Snape has done any of the following:
> 1. TEACH the formulas he himself used.  He does use a book and
> writes down the directions from the book -- there's no indication
> that his board instructions differ or Hermione would have mentioned
> it.

Magpie:
I don't think Rowling would think it was necessary to have Hermione point 
this out in earlier books.  Besides, why write things on the board if 
they're in the book? Regardless, I think NEWT level is probably different 
from the earlier stuff, where he was probably teaching the basic rules of 
Potions that would be standard.

I will say that Hermione seems to struggle more in Slughorn's class, which 
could, I think, indicate she's used to having better directions.  Some 
things Harry learns from the Prince Hermione says flat out he'd already been 
told by Snape.

R_K
>
> 2. Encourage in any way, manner or form any discussion or
> inventiveness regarding either theory or in performing the potion
> making.  It is clearly "by the book" only in his classes.

Magpie:
But obviously Snape doesn't teach strictly "by the book" in his classes 
because in DADA we've got him specifically criticizing "by the book."

R_K
> Possibly he would have addressed "differences" or "creativity" in
> NEWT Potions, but there really isn't anything to indicate that.  He
> certainly isn't doing that in NEWT DADA either.

Magpie:
Do we know that?  We have very little classtime with Snape in DADA, and in 
that we've got one moment of Snape telling Hermione that the textbook answer 
doesn't cover things, and we have him talking about DADA in a way that 
reminds Hermione of Harry, who is anything but by the book.  Snape seems to 
lay out his philosophy of DADA as being all about creativity and being able 
to think on your feet.

We also hear Harry saying that he thinks he's going to get a bad grade (or 
something like that) because he's disagreed with Snape on the best way to 
handle Dementors.  This could, on one hand, be seen as proof that Snape is 
the kind of teacher who only wants you to spit back what he tells you. 
However, we don't hear about what Harry gets on that essay, and otoh, this 
is the first time we've ever heard of Harry taking that kind of initiative 
in a class.  So after HBP I really can't see Snape as that kind of teacher 
whose class is just repeating the book.  On the contrary, his DADA class 
seems like one of the best Harry has ever had, though he won't admit it, in 
terms of his being challenged and engaged in the material.  He gets 
detention for mouthing off to the teacher, but Snape doesn't seem to be just 
picking on him all the time, a neutral student thinks it's a good class, and 
Hermione even comments on the teacher's approach being in tune with Harry's 
on the subject.

-m