What Hermione thinks of Snape as a teacher (LONG)? WAS: Re: Teaching Styles LONG

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 147995

> Potioncat:
> We also have Hermione who often defends Snape, even though she has 
> enough reasons not to bother.
<SNIP of the whole post basically>

Alla:

You know, it is funny. I was thinking about "Hermione defending 
Snape as a teacher' argument in support of "Snape as a good teacher" 
and I realized that I don't remember many instances when she does 
so. Now  in HBP she compares Snape DADA lesson to Harry's as it was 
discussed, I agree that this is a positive comparison, since 
Hermione definitely thought that Harry is a good teacher in OOP, but 
can we claim that based on one lesson Hermione considers Snape to be 
a good teacher? I don't think so, personally.

In any event, I went through the books trying to find where Hermione 
talks about Snape as a good teacher and I can report that I did not 
REALLY found many instances of Hermione defending Snape as teacher, 
praising him as teacher, etc.

I am NOT claiming with hundred percent certainty that such quotes do 
not exist, of course I could have missed something, but if I did it 
was not done intentionally and so far as I said I have not found 
almost any.

One more thing - I recently said that I do not take the position 
that Hermione is always always right, especially in the evaluation 
matters, so to speak, but I won't deny that JKR uses her to give us 
correct information ( IMO not necessarily correct value judgments 
and THAT I will try to demonstrate too), so if she were to give us 
factual information about Snape's teaching abilities, I would 
probably be forced to acknowledge it ( NOT towards Harry and 
Neville, because nothing can make me be convinced that Snape is a 
good teacher to them, but towards other students).

But so far I think that claims about Hermione supporting Snape as 
TEACHER seem to be not very much substantiated. IMO of course. 
Hermione supporting Dumbledore trust in Snape, sure, it is there, 
but hopefully with the end of HBP Hermione's confidence in 
Dumbledore's trust of Snape was shuttered

Now to canon.

PS/SS.

"You know what this means?" he finished breathlessly. "He tried to 
get past that three -headed dog at Halloween! That's where he was 
going when we saw him – he's after whatever it's guarding! And I'd 
bet my broomstick he let that troll in, to make a diversion!"
Hermione's eyes were wide.
"No- he wouldn't," she said. "I know he's not very nice, but he 
wouldn't try and steal something Dumbledore was keeping safe." – 
PS/SS, p.183
So, in this quote she indeed defends Snape but NOT as a teacher, but 
as someone who is loyal to Dumbledore. Well, could be of course. 
IMO, it is doubtful in light of HBP, but possible. 

Keep in mind that quite soon after that her opinion changes. She is 
clearly worried that Snape may hurt Harry in those quotes IMO:

"Rubbish," said Hagrid again. "Snape's a Hogwarts teacher, he'd 
nothing of the sort."
"So why did he just try and kill Harry?" cried Hermione.
The afternoon's events certainly seemed to have changed her mind 
about Snape." – PS/SS, p.193

"Speaking quietly so that no one else would hear, Harry told the 
other two about Snape's sudden sinister desire to be  a Quidditch 
referee.
"Don't play" said Hermione at once.
"Say you're ill," said Ron.
"Pretend to break your leg," Hermione suggested.
"Really break your leg," said Ron. – PS/SS, p.217

"Little did Harry know that Ron and Hermione had been secretly 
practicing the Leg-Locker curse. They'd gotten the idea from Malfoy 
using it on Neville, and were ready to use it on Neville, and were 
ready to use it on Snape if he showed any sign of wanting to hurt 
Harry. – PS/SS, p.222.

Hmm, we KNOW that Hermione is wrong here. Snape clearly was not 
trying to kill Harry as we learn at the end, so why cannot she be 
wrong when she speaks well of Snape? Although as I said I REALLY did 
not find that many instances when she does speak well of Snape as a 
teacher, in fact I found almost nothing.

This is the last quote from PS/SS I found of Hermione speaking well 
of Snape, but I think it is stretching to say that she praises his 
teaching abilities here. IMO of course.
"Brilliant," said Hermione. "This isn't magic – it's logic – a 
puzzle. A lot of the greatest wizards haven't got an ounce of 
logic , they'd be stuck in here forever." – PS/SS, p.285


II.
CoS.

Believe it or not, I have not found ONE instance in CoS when 
Hermione defends Snape as teacher or just as a person.

III
PoA.

This is getting even more interesting.

The only sort of value judgment Hermione gives to Snape as a teacher 
in this book which I was able to find was this one:

"Snape's never been like this with any of our other Defense against 
the Dark Arts teachers, even if he did want the job," Harry said to 
Hermione. "Why's he got it in for Lupin? D'you think this is all 
because of the boggart?"
"I don't know," said Hermione pensively. "Bur I really hope 
Professor Lupin gets better soon" –PoA, p.173

To me it sounds that Hermione rather prefers Remus as DADA teacher 
to Snape.

I have not found any other incidents of Hermione defending Snape in 
this book.

IV. GoF.

"Evil, he is," Ron said bitterly that night in the Gryffindor  
common room. "Springing a test on us in the last day. Ruining  the 
last bit of term with the whole lot of studying."

"Mmmm
.. you're not exactly straining yourself, though, are you?" 
said Hermione, looking at him over the top of her Potions notes.

.
`It's Christmas, Hermione," said Harry lazily; he was rereading 
Flying with the Cannons for the tenth time in an armchair near the 
fire.
Hermione looked severely over at him too. "I'd have thought you'd be 
doing something constructive, Harry, even if you don't want to learn 
your antidotes" – GoF, paperback, p.392

Hermione encourages boys to study for Snape's test, but where did 
she EVER encourage them not to study, for ANY teacher? ( She even 
encourages Harry to not skive off  Divination in OOP, – paperback, 
p.364). I really don't see how Hermione is defending Snape  as a 
teacher here. She just scolds the boys IMO ( deservingly so of 
course).


"I don't care what Moody says," Hermione went on. " Dumbledore `s 
not stupid. He was not right to trust Hagrid and Professor Lupin, 
even though loads of people wouldn't given them their jobs, so why 
shouldn't he be right about Snape, even if Snape is a bit----"

..
"You just want to think Snape is up to something ," said Hermione 
sending her cushion zooming neatly into the box" – GoF, p.481

"So you think Snape could be up to something, then ?" asked Harry, 
but Hermione broke in.
"Look , I don't care what you say, Dumbledore trusts Snape" – GoF, 
p.530

I again don't see anything about Snape teaching abilities here, more 
like confidence that Snape is not up to something, IMO anyways


V. OOP

Here is another bit where Hermione really does not seem to  be 
defending Snape the teacher.
"This was really unfair," said Hermione  consolingly, sitting the 
down next to Harry and  helping herself to shepherd's pie. "Your 
potion wasn't nearly as bad as Goyle's, when he put it in his flagon 
the whole thing shattered and set his robes on fire"

..
"I did think he might be a bit better this year," said Hermione in a 
disappointed voice. " I mean
you know
." She looked carefully 
around; there were half a dozen empty seats on either side of them 
and nobody was passing the table"
. Now he is in the Order and 
everything." – OOP, p.235

In these quotes I again see Hermione defending Dumbledore's trust in 
Snape and nothing more.
"Shut up, Ron," said Hermione angrily. "How many times have you 
suspected Snape, and when have you ever been right? Dumbledore 
trusts him, he works for the Order that ought to be enough."


" Dumbledore trusts him," Hermione repeated. "And if we can't trust 
Dumbledore, we can't trust anyone" – OOP, paperback, p.555

I seem to remember Hermione telling Harry to go back and ask Snape 
for Occlumency lessons after the disaster, but I don't think she was 
praising him as a teacher either, just wanted  Harry to stop having 
the dreams ( cannot find the quote).


HBP.

Right, we have Hermione comparing Snape's speech to Harry's  and 
what else do we have?

Well, we have of course Hermione continuing her studies  in Potions 
but I really believe that it does not say much except that Hermione 
can learn from almost anybody.

After all `Hermione was immediately cleared to continue with Charms, 
Defense against the Dark Arts, Transfigurations, Herbology, 
Arithmancy, Ancient Rules, and Potions
" – p.173. Can we conclude 
from this that teachers who teach Arithmancy and Ancient Rules for 
example are good teachers? I am not so sure.

I am really too tired to go through every page of HBP –  it is late 
here, so if I don't remember passionate defense by Hermione of 
Snape's teaching style in this book, or any kind of defense, then I 
apologize, but based on five books I went through rather carefully ( 
again could have missed things by accident), I make a conclusion 
that Hermione does  defend Dumbledore trust of Snape in the books ( 
hopefully she will realize how wrong she is :))  but does not really 
defend Snape as a teacher.

Of course, JMO.

Alla