[HPforGrownups] Re: Etymology of Lupin's name (Was: The Names of the Books and the Teachers . .

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 148040

Randy:

> Forgive me for thinking that JKR might structure the whole series
> around these themes.  She just emphasizes a point in each one.  Harry
> has to learn to overcome them all.

Magpie:
But she doesn't emphasize a point in each one, you've just chosen to focus 
on one or the other in each book.  For instance, why is greed/jealousy 
(though jealousy is actually envy, not greed) the subject for HBP?  You've 
claimed, for instance, that Draco and Ron are jealous of the Slug Club, but 
in fact both of those characters are notably less jealous than they've been 
in the past.  Draco is annoyed when Slughorn is obviously favoring Harry (as 
are Hermione and Ernie) but he gets over being excluded pretty easily and is 
even willing to pretend to be jealous to cover up his real agenda.  And if 
you're looking for a book about Ron being jealous, that would be GoF far 
more than HBP.

And as for the horcruxes, why is the diary envy?  Tom doesn't envy 
Slytherin, he's Slytehrin's heir.  Why is the ring pride and not anger, 
since Tom killed his family out of anger?  Why is the cup gluttony and not 
lust when Hepzibah lusted after Riddle?  Why is the locket lust and not envy 
with Merope envying Cecelia and Tom Riddle?

Personally, I like looking at some of the books as centering more on the 
house qualities--PoA=Gryffindor, GoF=Hufflepuff, OotP=Ravenclaw and 
HBP=Slytherin, but even there I wouldn't claim it's an allegory (though it's 
more allegorical at times, such as the way in PoA Harry's facing Dementors, 
which is fear itself, and boggarts, who personify your worst fear, and the 
core value of Gryffindor is courage).  I do think there's a lot more in each 
of those books based around that idea.  An allegory would mean that certain 
things or people literally *are* these sins, and I'm not seeing that.

> Alla:
> I am not comparing Snape with any other teachers right now, I just
> see no proof in the books that Hermione thinks BETTER of Snape than
> any other teachers excluding Trelawney and Hagrid and in the case of
> Trelawney, I am getting more and more convinced that it has more to
> do with subject than with the teacher and I am NOT calling Trelawney
> a good teacher either, I just think that Hermione calling her an old
> fraud may not be substantiated at the end either.


Magpie:
But there IS proof that Hermione thinks better of Snape than she thinks of 
these two, because we hear Hermione doubt the competence of these two in 
ways she doesn't doubt Snape.  As do Ron and Harry doubt the competency of 
these two without doubting Snape's, even while criticizing things he does.

> Magpie:
>> No, Hermione probably would not have liked Divination no matter
> who was
>> teaching it, but yes, she probably would have shown respect for
> Firenze that
>> she does not show for Trelawney because Trelawney is a fraud.
>
> Alla:
>
> She calls Firenze a "horse". I don't see it as proof of respect,
> quite the contrary.

Magpie:
She makes no comment on Firenze's teaching one way or another.  She's never 
had him as a teacher.  Hermione's "horse" remark is strictly about his 
looks.  Lavender and Parvati are saying she probably regrets dropping the 
class now that there's a hot teacher, and Hermione is saying four legs and a 
tail don't turn her on.

> Alla:
>
> It had been argued that what Trelawney "sees" is actually true for
> the most part, but she misinterprets what she 'sees". If that is
> true, I don't think that she is a fraud. She just lacks Seer's
> talent to correctly interpret her predictions.

Magpie:
Well, we can argue anything we want, no matter how strange, but most of the 
stuff Trelawney has predicted in this way has not happened and her 
predictions are a bit too convenient to really suggest she's seeing things 
honestly--in fact, it seems like there's usually clear signs when she's 
faking and when she isn't.  She also praises Harry and Ron for coming up 
with nonsense for homework.  She's definitely made real predictions, but 
she's often made a lot of fake ones.  She's only in control of the fake 
ones.

> Alla:
>
> On that I am having big doubts. I think that if Trelawney was
> teaching something Hermione had more faith in, Hermione would have
> had very little problems with her as a teacher. But I am just
> speculating of course.
>
> Hermione was able to tolerate Professor Binns teaching after all.

Magpie:
I do think the subject comes into it, but if Trelawney taught Charms the 
same way she teaches Divinations I can't imagine Hermione wouldn't be just 
as livid: praising Ron and Harry's made-up homework?  Faking her own 
demonstrations in ways that were obvious?  Nobody ever getting any real 
results in the class and her claiming they had gotten results?  I can't see 
Hermione standing for it.  Hermione finds Binns interesting at times, 
because he is at least droning on about actual information.

> Magpie:
> Snape definitely has problems as a teacher, which Rowling has even
>> spelled out in interviews: when he's picking on kids and abusing
> his power,
>> the kids see through him.  When Snape is picking on Harry, he is
> not being a
>> teacher.
> <SNIP>
>
> Alla:
>
> You mean Snape not being a teacher when he picks on Harry in
> metaphorical sense? If so I agree, but if you mean that he only
> picks on Harry during the time he is not teaching, I disagree.

Magpie:
I meant it the first way.  When Snape is picking on Harry he is abandoning 
the basic requirements of his job and acting not like a teacher but like 
another student.  By which I don't mean that we can't judge him as a teacher 
during those times, because of course he's supposed to be teaching then.  It 
would be bad enough for Snape to treat Harry like that outside of school, 
but the fact that he's doing it when in the position of a teacher makes it 
worse.

-m