[HPforGrownups] Re: DD and Snape's Culpability

[Tammy Rizzo]

No: HPFGUIDX 148122

latha279 wrote:
> Yes, indeed, I came to that conclusion only because Trelawney knew
> Snape was there. She said he interrupted her interview. But there is
> no way she could have known of anything at that time. She goes into a
> trance and she loses consciousness of the outer world.

Miles wrote :
And that means that Snape really interrupted her interview (as far as she
could know).
 <snip>
a) Snape only heard the first part of the prophecy. Then he was disturbed by
the barman, and because of this Snape could only hear the first part of the
prophecy. 
<snip>
 b) Snape heard the entire prophecy. *After* the prophecy he was disturbed
by
the barman, so Trelawny could hear the commotion and notice that Snape was
eavesdropping her interview (that, what we know but she not, included the
prophecy). 
<snip>
 b2) If "my" version is true, than Dumbledore lied at Harry:

"Snape (...) heard the first half of Professor Trelawney's prophecy. He
hastened to tell his master what he had heard" (HBP 25).

Now, I really don't think that Dumbledore usually lies at Harry, or likes to
do it. But if he did it this time - who wants to blame him? Harry is
supposed to face Voldemort sooner or later. Voldemort is able to break into
Harry's mind again. It would be most dangerous for Snape if Harry knew
exactly why Dumbledore trusts Snape, and knows that Snape has betrayed
Voldemort (and is still doing it).
So, this would be a white lie - and I think it is possible and no real
argument against this theory.

Miles 
 
Now Tammy says:
 
Actually, if we want to go splitting hairs (that *is*, after all, an Olympic
Event on this list, isn't it?), Dumbledore did NOT lie to Harry about Snape
hearing the first half of Trelawney's prophecy.  After all, if Snape heard
the whole thing, then, by definition, he heard the first half, as well as
the second half.  DD may be using the truth to mislead Harry into believing
something false yet vital, perhaps, but it's still the truth.  If Snape
indeed heard the whole thing, then DD is still sticking with facts, just not
ALL of them.  It is one thing to tell a falsehood or an untruth in an effort
to decieve someone, and something else to use true words to let someone
mislead himself to the conclusion required for the safety of others.
Dumbledore has used this technique on others in the past (PoA comes to mind,
with Fudge at Buckbeak's execution, as well as at the end, with Fudge again
and Snape, after Harry and Hermione have set Sirius free).
 
My personal take on it has always been (well, since reading Trelawney's
account of the event) that Snape probably DID only hear the first part,
because HE was interrupted at his keyhole and took those few seconds
covering the last part of the prophecy to try to explain himself to
Aberforth, before Aberforth opened the door and revealed the situation to
Dumbledore.  After all, even using a spoooookey voice, it only takes mere
moments to finish the prophecy, which could easily be taken up on the other
side of the door with repeated protestations of innocently losing one's way,
which protestations rise in volume until there's a scene. 
 
Tammy
 


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