[HPforGrownups] Re: Snape! Snape! Snape! Snape! Loverly Snape! Wonderful Snape! (long)

[Laura Lynn Walsh]

No: HPFGUIDX 148223

>Shaun:
>
>.... I
>don't see any sign that Snape derives pleasure from cruelty. I
>really do not. I see no sign of that whatsoever in the text. I've
>gone into why I see no sign of it in considerable detail in another
>post and I won't restate that completely here - but in simple terms
>the reason I disagree with that defition is because if Snape got
>pleasure from having Neville in his classes, and that is why he
>treats Neville the way he does, then Snape would *welcome*
>Neville's presence in his classes because it would give him the
>opportunitity for self gratification. In my view, it seems
>absolutely clear that giving a free choice, Snape would get rid of
>Neville from his classes. He doesn't want him there.

Laura:
The only aspect of this that I disagree with is the following:
It is a given that Snape MUST have Neville in his class - he
has no choice for the first few years, since Potions is a
REQUIRED class.  Thus, it could be said that he DOES
derive some satisfaction from proving that he doesn't belong
in that class.  I am not sure I would call it deriving satisfaction
from cruelty.  He certainly seems to enjoy pointing up the
errors that some students make in a rather vicious and sarcastic
manner.  The fact that this is cruel to some students may not be
his goal, but his manner of pointing out the errors certainly IS.
And the effect is cruel, even if the intention is not.  The fact is,
he doesn't seem to care if the effect is cruel.  He would say
that the emotional state of his students is completely unimportant.

So, I guess I am treading a fine line.  He is deriving pleasure
from acts whose effects are cruel.  That is pretty close to being
sadistic, by the latter definitions you were discussing.  IMO.

Hermione makes a similar "mistake" when she is discussing
the death of Lavendar's rabbit.  She is interested only in
proving her point about Trelawny's prediction.  Lavendar's
emotional state is much less important to her.  That is why
the other student see her as cruel.

Laura Walsh   lwalsh at acsalaska.net