Why Leave Harry at HW at the End of HBP?

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 148297

Jen wrote:
"Didn't someone already propose that the DE's actually *did* take
Trelawney with them when they left because she wasn't at the funeral?
It was odd there was no mention of her; I figured she was partying in
the Room of Requirement and lost track of time. But maybe a couple of
DE's never left the ROR and simply kidnapped Trelawney back through
the Vanishing Cabinet before it was disabled by the Order."

CH3ed:
Nah. If it was odd that the presence of Trelawney wasn't mentioned at
DD's funeral, it would be doubly odd that her absence from the school
since the DEs' raid on Hogwarts had gone totally unnoticed and
unmentioned by anyone. Had Trelawney been abducted then her
disappearance would have been big news, ay?

Jen: 
Wait, I think it would be the other way around wouldn't it? No one 
noticed Trelawney wasn't at the funeral because she's typically 
absent. So then her absence from kidnapping could be overlooked for 
quite awhile. Her walking the halls in HBP kept her in Harry's (and 
our) view for the later drama of her kidnapping <beg>, but wouldn't 
necessarily mean staff or students would expect her for the funeral 
instead of holing up in her tower. 

Hmmm, it does get into a circular argument though, doesn't it? ;)

> Jen: Your post made me think of another question rather than an
> answer: What exactly *was* Voldemort's goal in HBP?
 
Dungrollin:
> ('Lo, Jen!)
> I reckon he had three goals (most important first). 
> 1. Test Snape's loyalty.
> 2. Get rid of DD.
> 3. Punish Lucius.
 
> Actually 1 and 2 are pretty equal in terms of importance, I think; 
> getting Draco involved was just the icing on the cake.
>  
> Voldy's already tried to kidnap/kill Harry, twice before, and 
> neither time worked out great, so he switched strategy, and
> decided (particularly after it became obvious in that duel in the
> MoM that he couldn't beat DD in a straight fight) to get DD out of
> the way by more Slytherin means. I think, after two failed
> attempts on Harry Potter's life, he was justified in changing tic-
> tacs.

Jen: Hey Dung! Hope you're still there as it took me a couple of 
days to get back to this one.

Still, why didn't Voldemort take advantage of Dumbledore's death to 
swipe Harry when he was unprotected? Voldemort said in the graveyard 
Harry is protected at his relatives because of Lily's sacrifice and 
protected at Hogwarts by Dumbledore. So you'd think the moment he 
got Dumbledore out of the way would be the perfect moment to take 
Harry away to an undisclosed location again even if not planning to 
immediately kill him.

Unless Harry's many escapes are making Voldemort wonder if he *can* 
kill Harry. I still think it's plausible he's wondering about the 
prophecy and whether there's something in there to explain Harry's 
many escapes from certain death, or what his protection may be 
beyond Lily.

I do agree LV's minor goals were your #'s 1 & 3 above.

> Jen previous:
> So Voldemort's goal was to get Dumbledore out of the way, but not
> in order to kidnap Harry. In fact, it's possible Dumbledore was
> even aware Voldemort had another goal because when you think about
> it,Dumbledore didn't make any obvious attempt to protect Harry
> after his death. Fawkes left, Snape left. The Order didn't 
> immediately spring into action and take Harry to a secure
> location. For whatever reason Dumbledore seemed to believe Harry
> was safe in the short-term even if he died. 
 
> Dung:
> Many posters (or perhaps just a few – it's so difficult to tell, 
> sometimes) want to make Snape unaware of Draco's task. They read
> him as bluffing in Spinner's End when he said that he knew what it
> was, trying to get Bella and Narcissa to give him information. I 
> don't buy that at all. I think Snape knew all about it before 
> Narcissa came to visit him, and he'd already discussed it with
> Dumbledore. ("He intends me to do it in the end...")

Jen: Do you mean Snape was actually referring to Dumbledore there 
and not Voldemort when he said 'he intends me to do it in the end'? 
Now that would shed a new light on the tower! I may be misreading 
and you are simply using that quote to back up that Snape did know 
the task. My guess is Snape was placed at Hogwarts as a spy way back 
when 16 years ago for the eventual purpose of killing Dumbledore, so 
he was well aware what his use to Voldemort was. Narcissa and 
Bellatrix weren't giving him new information except perhaps the part 
about Draco being involved. Not sure about that.


> Dung:
> I don't think Voldy found out that DD knew about the Horcruxes,
> that would (to my mind) count as a major emergency, and he 
> wouldn't hang about for a year letting Draco fail, he'd have got
> Snape on the job immediately, or launched a full-on assault on 
> Hogwarts. You know, try to kill DD before he *told* anyone or
> anything...

Jen: You're probably right. Voldemort would consider safeguarding 
the horcruxes the first priority beyond any other plan. 

Dung:
> As for orders to leave Harry alone, it seems perfectly plausible 
> that Voldy had had enough of failing to kill him, but was angry 
> enough about it to not want anyone else to have the pleasure. 
> Going at it piecemeal, getting rid of DD The Protector first
> sounds sensible to me. Plus the fact that Voldy's now using
> Occlumency against Harry, makes it rather look like The Harry 
> Problem was put on hold for a year.

Jen: So getting rid of Dumbledore with the eventual plan of getting 
to Harry. It seems almost too rational for Voldemort. He obsesses 
about the prophecy, about killing Harry. I guess he was shaken up by 
not being able to possess Harry and thus is employing Occlumency 
against him. But it seems like that would make him even *more* 
intent on a way to kill Harry, which leads back to the prophecy in 
his eyes, which leads back to.....Trelawney.

Dung:
> Regarding the prophecy, it does seem a little odd, doesn't it? To 
> spend an entire year and a lot of effort trying to find out its 
> contents and then the next year petulantly stamp your foot and 
> shriek "I didn't want to know anyway, and I'm going to have the
> man it was told to murdered, so there!"
> 
> Has Voldy got over his obsession? Has he decided it doesn't matter 
> any more? Or has someone already told him what he needs to know?
> Argh, don't ask me to fathom the way an evil overlord's mind
> works...

Jen: Hehehe. Now we do know how his mind works, though--very 
irrationally and with fixations to say the least. He was 
irrationally obsessed with the prophecy and I still think he very 
much wants and needs that information. In his mind it holds the key 
to Harry's ability to defy him four times because he sets so much 
store by it.


Dung:
> Btw, can anyone tell me off the top of their head whether the 
> following has been proposed:
> Instead of Time-Turned!Ron = Dumbledore, Time-Turned!Gred&Forge
> are Albus and Aberforth. 'Spect someone must have done, but
> thought I'd ask, becuase it would turn DD's comment about G&F's
> beards when they crossed the age line into a fine bit of 
> foreshadowing.

Jen: I read that on another site but not here--you have a theory? I 
think it was at Leaky Lounge. There was actually quite a bit of 
canon for it including all the muggle things Fred/George included in 
their magic shop and Dumbledore's sweet tooth in there somewhere. 
More I can't remember. The counter was that both Fred and George can 
read. :)

Jen, who still likes the theory she read somewhere that Dumbledore 
is actually the Head House Elf who wants socks to free his 
people...er, creatures. *tongue totally in cheek here but the theory 
was interesting*