Young Dumbledore (wasRe: Why Leave Harry at HW at the End of HBP?)

[gelite67]

No: HPFGUIDX 148360


> Jen wrote: 
> > I mean, Voldemort is not the only obsessed person 
> > in the series <g>. When we finally hear about 
> > Grindelwald, perhaps the root of Dumbledore's 
> > obsession with bringing down dark lords will have 
> > more meaning. Mostly I think he's doing it for the 
> > good of the WW, but he wasn't *always* the greatest 
> > sorcerer in the world with only the good of humanity 
> > on his mind, was he? At one time maybe he was a boy 
> > and young man a bit like Harry.
> 
Angie here:

Jen, thanks for your post, which gave me the opportunity to bring up 
something that's been bugging me ever since I first read SS and now, 
HBP (hope I'm not repeating here).  Bear with me; it's long but it 
all ties together.

First, to ponder a moment on the source of DD's fame.  OK, according 
to his chocolate frog card, he is "particularly famous" for defeating 
Grindewald in 1945.  According to Lockhart, fame is a fickle friend 
in the WW (as it is in the Muggle world) -- so how far did 
Grindewald's defeat get DD in the WW?  Saying he is particularly 
famous for defeating a Dark Wizard clearly implies that he was also 
famous for some other reason(s), but what are those other reasons?  
I don't know when DD started teaching at HW, but his reputation seems 
to have preceded him -- what else did he do to gain his reputation?  
Was that one defeat of Grindewald sufficient to have DD crowned the 
most powerful wizard of the age?  When else in the past has DD 
demonstrated how powerful he is (in a non-OWL setting)?
I just can't see how DD being headmaster of HW sustains his 
reputation. 

Second, what do we know about the nature of DD's "defeat" of 
Grindelwald?  Did DD kill Grindewald or just capture him?  I've 
always assumed that Grindewald was the Darkest wizard of his day -- 
why else would his capture have brought DD such fame? Why else would 
DD be the only man LV ever feared?  Because it was clear that DD was 
powerful enough and willing to defeat a great Dark Wizard like 
Grindewald.  I don't think LV fears DD simply because DD is so 
powerful, but because LV fears death the most and he knows that DD is 
willing and able to kill a Dark Wizard, if need be.  I think implicit 
in this is that DD is willing and able to use Dark Magic if necessary 
and has done so before (he's no novice).

I find it hard to believe that DD merely subdued Grindewald and 
landed him in Azkaban, for several reasons.  First, in OOP, LV seems 
surprised that DD doesn't try to kill him, which makes me think that 
he expected DD to try and kill him b/c he (LV) knew that DD had 
killed Grindewald.  Second, if DD merely captured Grindewald, that 
would make Grindewald's defeat on no greater par than any Dark 
Wizard's capture.  I don't know of any wizard who is "particularly 
famous" for merely capturing a Dark Wizard. (If merely capturing a 
Dark Wizard brings that kind of fame, shouldn't Moody be more famous 
than DD?) Third, I would think any Dark Wizard worth his salt should 
rather die fighting than go to Azkaban and be guarded by the 
Dementors (take that, Bella!).

Finally, relating this to the HBP, if DD killed Grindewald, did he 
make a horcrux for himself?  Like some of you, I don't believe that 
DD was always the benevolent man we see before us (which would 
explain how DD recognized the Dark Side in LV). His work with Flamel 
on the SS indicates that he, at one time at least, was interested in 
seeing if one could truly gain immortality (interesting that the info 
on Grindewald and the SS were given to us at the same time, huh? 
Maybe DD got the SS from Grindewald?) I don't know what happened to 
make DD change his mind, but he seems to have done so.  I suppose he 
could have made a horcrux, then thought better of his ways and 
destroyed it later (which explains why he knew how to destroy LV's 
horcruxes).


Angie (who has exhausted her 3rd post for the day and who will 
respond to any replies tomorrow, assuming she has electricity!)